Is it time to rehabilitate Cold Steel? CONTROVERSIAL

[joshiecole]

This will really set the cat among the pigeons!

Two things have made me wonder whether Cold Steel still deserves to be the butt of all knife afficianado jokes..

Firstly, I've recently bought an 80s first generation, stag-handled Trail Master. I can tell you it's a beauty! Tough, functional and aesthetically pleasing. Will it hold the best edge ever? No. Will it stand up up any plausible woods scenario? Easily. It's easy to see how this was the benchmark production bowie for so many years. Is Carbon V as malleable as Infi? Almost certainly not, but according to Zowada who has the unique privelege of having forged both Infi and Carbon V it does perform similarly to a combination of O1, W1 and L6 whichwould be an excellent combination -- I recommend googling his rticle on the subject, well worth a read

On top of this, the design and thought that went into the design has rightly made it a classic.

The second thing that has made me wonder is that apparently CS will now be using O1 steel on their 2013 Trail Masters. Finally a dependable steel again!

I know CS has ridiculous marketing -- but hey they are hardly the only ones whose marketing relies on the ability to stab the knife through a car hood!! The same is true of Busse and Winkler and others...

I'm certainly no CS fanboy -- a lot of their models look ridiculous or pointless-- but I do think they deserve a little bit of respect a) for redefining QC and heat treatment standards for production knives (even if they fell off their early standards in the last ten years) b) their 80s/90s contributions and c) the promise of a new dawn of Trail Masters with O1 steel, which is good enough for Randall.

I should confess that in terms of ownership I'm a Busse man through and through, but I don't think anyone should have a monopoly on tough, dependable well thought out knives, and this 5/16 chunk of Carbon V has got my respect!

 

[joshiecole]

http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/File:Cowboy2.jpg

This guy trusts his.... And he has an excellent beard so he must know his stuff!!

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Cold Steel seems to have really picked their game up since Mr. Demko joined the company. The triad lock, American Lawman, the new Voyagers, and linerless Recon 1s have all proven to be very effective and popular knives. Now they've introduced the Warcraft line, which seems to indicate they're going to start using hugely upgraded steel in at least some of their models and, honestly, the new Talwar folder is probably my favorite design to come out in several years. It doesn't seem like they're truly competing with Spyderco or Benchmade yet, but it seems like they're going that direction and I applaud them for it.

 

[marcinek]

Firstly, I've recently bought an 80s first generation, stag-handled Trail Master.

That's kinda like judging Gerber based on a pre-Fiskars knife of theirs.

Cold Steel? Not for me. If they started eliminating their ninja stuff and comically oversized folders, I'd reconsider them. That said, they make a good "starter" knife, and you can't argue with success.

 

[evilgreg]

They market to the mall ninja crowd, and their videos are lol-worthy ("take that, meat-filled boot, hee-yah!"), but that doesn't mean their knives are junk. AUS-8a or not, I really like some of their knives. IMO, their Tuff Lite and Mini Tuff Lite knives out-Spyderco Spyderco at making a good "little big knife", and outside of the black grivory making a lot of the knives look less pretty than they perform, all of the knives I've bought from them have been rock solid.

I like some of their knives *and* I like to make fun of their marketing videos--why can't I have both? No controversy.

 

[jazub]

I dig Cold Steel. Didn't know they were switching up steel in the Trailmaster; I'll buy a new one to go with the one I bought in 2009. The Lawman and Recon 1 are my other CS knives and they are great. The only thing that keeps me from carrying them more is the G10 tearin' up my pocket. Been meaning to pick up a Code 4 tanto since I saw it; should be easier on pants.

As far as the marketing videos are concerned, they're fun to watch. Of course, if someone doesn't like them, it's easy to close ones eyes or look at anything else (sky, dirt, wall, etc)

 

[Kwon Kwang]

This will really set the cat among the pigeons!

Two things have made me wonder whether Cold Steel still deserves to be the butt of all knife afficianado jokes..

When have they really been, among people who actually use knives? I know they sometimes are for people who like to keep their knives in glass cases rather than in their pockets and on their belts.

Firstly, I've recently bought an 80s first generation, stag-handled Trail Master. I can tell you it's a beauty! Tough, functional and aesthetically pleasing. Will it hold the best edge ever? No. Will it stand up up any plausible woods scenario? Easily. It's easy to see how this was the benchmark production bowie for so many years. Is Carbon V as malleable as Infi? Almost certainly not, but according to Zowada who has the unique privelege of having forged both Infi and Carbon V it does perform similarly to a combination of O1, W1 and L6 whichwould be an excellent combination -- I recommend googling his rticle on the subject, well worth a read

On top of this, the design and thought that went into the design has rightly made it a classic.

Actually, Carbon V is known for holding an edge for a super long time, while being extremely strong and tough. It's considered by many to be one of the best steels for fixed blades of the Trail Master's ilk. You are correct that it will stand up to any plausible woods scenario, although I'd prefer a standard kraton-handled one with the secure-ex sheath for that. I've also interacted with folks who prefer the Trail Master over INFI blades like the Battle Mistress.

[video=youtube;3Y1VGhxQ0-s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y1VGhxQ0-s[/video]

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but everyone has different tastes.

The second thing that has made me wonder is that apparently CS will now be using O1 steel on their 2013 Trail Masters. Finally a dependable steel again!

There was nothing wrong with SK-5 in the first place. O1 is probably better for a knife like the Trailmaster - different steels are better for different applications. SK-5 is great.

[video=youtube;axhNWo80oRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axhNWo80oRg[/video]

know CS has ridiculous marketing -- but hey they are hardly the only ones whose marketing relies on the ability to stab the knife through a car hood!! The same is true of Busse and Winkler and others...

For some people, such as myself, it is partially because of the "marketing" that a Cold Steel knife is chosen over that of another company. They show you that their knives can do what they'll say they'll do. There is no gamble with your purchase.

I'm certainly no CS fanboy -- a lot of their models look ridiculous or pointless-- but I do think they deserve a little bit of respect a) for redefining QC and heat treatment standards for production knives (even if they fell off their early standards in the last ten years) b) their 80s/90s contributions and c) the promise of a new dawn of Trail Masters with O1 steel, which is good enough for Randall.

I don't think they have fallen off their standards in the last ten years. As the years go by, I see Cold Steel get better and better, with their designs and materials always improving.

I should confess that in terms of ownership I'm a Busse man through and through, but I don't think anyone should have a monopoly on tough, dependable well thought out knives, and this 5/16 chunk of Carbon V has got my respect!

Nothing wrong with Busse. I intend to be a Busse customer sometime in the future, too. And it's hard not to respect Carbon V. I've got a Recon Tanto and Gurkha Kukri in that steel.

 

[GIRLYmann]

compared with the current cs products of taiwanese or chinese origin of today,
the fit and finishing on the japanese made models have never been in question.
they were and still are products of decent quality.
perhaps the cosmetic aspect of their non-japanese made products via respective quality control standards
have been allowed to slip with the current state of the economy.
cold steel have always had "a novel approach" to marketing.
which i find very invigorating to the senses.
their products fill the niche for almost every use imaginable.
the greatest thing about cs is how they have introduced varying products to capture the imagination of the buyer.
hence, creating new and expanding uncharted markets for itself.
and i applaud their brave stance and innovation.
each company has a "face",
and lynn thompson's (like it or not) obviously the sole driving force behind the company's direction.
it's probably, going to be a dilemma for folks wanting to openly embrace cold steel products
but find it hard to accept the personality (namely nr thompson) behind it.
i often wonder what would happen
should lynn thompson cease to appear in advertising print and media
and instead appoint some other gifted vibrant personality to play spokesman.

 

[Oakengroves]

Am the only person who finds Cold Steel's intentionally over-the-top, light-heart marketing preferable to what has become boilerplate "HARD USE TACTICAL OPERATOR" marketing by dozens of manufacturers? Strider, Microtech, Protech, and Hinderer lead the market with distasteful and boring marketing practices, imo.

Cold Steel's silly marketing videos are enjoyable. I'd rather watch Lynn Thompson chop through a meat-boot than read about how a knife is designed for "elite special force use." Cheesy heavy metal riffs are preferable to exaggerated, boring claims about how a knife is going to turn its user into Solid Snake.

Some may disagree, but: Cold Steel makes the best budget-conscious and cost-to-performance folders on the market today. I own CRKs, Benchmades, Spyderos, Mcustas, Kershaws, and ZTs, but when I need a cheap beater that will get a nasty job done, I reach for a Voyager or Recon-1.

Cold Steel needs no rehabilitation because they make outstanding products that have sold well for a long time

 

[crom]

They've been around since before a lot of the haters have been alive or were playing with power rangers. I never heard of the Proof dvd's until I discovered BF in the early 2000's so I'm not sure how much of an impact the "marketing" ever had in the first place. Maybe it the marketing affects your delicate sensibilities you should turn off youtube and go outside for some fresh air. It's not like I turn on the nightly news to find commercials with LT cutting meat bikes in half.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

Am the only person who finds Cold Steel's intentionally over-the-top, light-heart marketing preferable to what has become boilerplate "HARD USE TACTICAL OPERATOR" marketing by dozens of manufacturers? Strider, Microtech, Protech, and Hinderer lead the market with distasteful and boring marketing practices, imo.

I enjoy their somewhat silly marketing videos. I'd rather watch Lynn Thompson chop through a meat-boot than read about how a knife is designed for "elite special force use." I prefer the cheesy heavy metal riffs to exaggerated, silly claims about how a knife is going to turn its user into Solid Snake.

Call this a sinful or evil statement if you wish, but: Cold Steel makes the best budget-conscious and cost-to-performance folders on the market today. I own CRKs, Benchmades, Spyderos, Mcustas, Kershaws, and ZTs, but when I need a cheap beater that will get a nasty job done, I reach for my Cold Steel Voyager or Recon-1.

Cold Steel needs no rehabilitation because they make outstanding products that have sold well for a long time.

I entirely agree with your post. I'm tired of hearing all of this "OUR KNIVES ARE TACTICAL GRADE SENTRY REMOVAL TOOLS, HIGH SPEED LOW DRAG BRO, ARE YOU HARDCORE ENOUGH FOR THEM? DESIGNED FOR SECRET BLACK OPS" garbage, especially from liars like Mickey Ray Burger.

Besides, I like Cold Steel's marketing videos. What some people don't realize is that the videos aren't entirely serious. They have fun making them and some of what you see (like posing with the knife after a test) is an inside joke.

 

[philllll]

Kwon, that SK-5 1,000+ cut test was pretty darn impressive

 

[joshiecole]

Great response guys!

I think a few of you might have got the impression that I don't like the promotional videos -- nothing could be further from the truth! They are a bit silly, but it's all good fun and always entertaining!

I mentioned it because it's something people always use to mock CS...

 

[GregB]

I'd just like to see more made in the US stuff. I'm a sucker for the Carbon V US made stuff My Yard Knife is a Rajah II.

GregB

 

[ericzhao517]

I dont think cold steel is doing anything wrong imo. If they could upgrade and expand on there steel choices thatll be great. But lets face it, we are all knife nuts here. Who wont spend less than 5 mins at night to sharpen up there awesome heat treated aus 8 to razor sharpness??? And I like videos lol it shows that they arnt a bunch of uptight a$$ h*les, if you look at some youtube vids of the staff they all seem super laid back and knowledgeable people.

 

[joshiecole]

I just want to reiterate that the last thing I wanted to do with this thread was denigrate any company whether cold steel, busse or zero tolerance or whatever. It was simply intended as a tongue in cheek comment about knife snobbery, something that we all risk -- myself very much included.

I also just wanted to a knife that has been getting the job done for over a quarter of a century!

I've loved this knife so much I've gone and bought myself another Kraton handled USA made Carbon V trail master....

 

[Cold Steel Knives]

Thanks for all the kind words.
This was a fun post to read with my morning coffee

We have a lot of fun doing what we do.
We have been making these videos and doing live demos at events and shows ever since the early 80s.
To begin with it was simple, we just took our knives and subjected them to the same tests that were used for handmade swords.
Our knives were expensive, and Lynn's mission was to prove to all of our potential customers that this new brand was making good knives and that they were worth their hard earned dollars.

Very straightforward. No real marketing "strategy", just beat on the knife and show how tough it was.
We've basically kept to the same formula ever since. The budget has gone up and the product line has got more diverse but it's still the same basic formula.

As Lynn always says "we've got to back up our brag"

Many of the crew have been working together for over 20 years. They are all friends who train, hunt, shoot and hang out together, and they love making these videos and chopping stuff up.
Proof in itself is not only a hardcore testing video but also kind of one big in-joke between friends.
For example, the dramatic posing after each big cut. Back in the day we only had one camera, so the person doing the demo would be required to stand still while we got a close up of the edge on the knife. Now, we have multiple cameras but the guys still pose!

Many of the production meetings are based on "wouldn't it be fun if..."
We get to stop work for a week, chop things up with swords and convert the gym into a fake medieval castle. What's not to love?
We have fun making the videos and I think a lot of times that comes across in the DVD. It was entertaining to make and I hope that it's also entertaining to watch.
I'm often bewildered by people who think it's all deadly serious.

The tests are all 100% genuine. The feats are often tough as hell.
It's a grueling shoot - we film all of our products in the space of 7 days!. The team will train for up to a year before each video and they take all of the testing very seriously. It's dangerous stuff and we want to ensure that everyone stays safe BUT when all that is done there's no harm in slicing soda bottles or cutting up cardboard targets for the sheer fun of it.

We are shooting a new proof video here at HQ next week, and you can bet it will be bigger, crazier and more over-the-top than ever.

We are super proud of our products and we love to showcase what they do. Everyone here lives and breathes this stuff and we're excited about every new product.
Sure, Lynn can be outspoken sometimes, but he is far from the monster that certain forum members portray him as. When I see the immature and sometimes out and out offensive comments that some people think is acceptable on the internet I'm astounded. It just proves that those people don't know the guy at all.

Personally, I'm very excited by our new line up. We have a lot of really cool stuff planned for the next 4 years and it's going to be awesome.
The 01 and the CPM 3-V have tested REALLY well and that's just the beginning...

Also, for the record - I'm a proud Mall Ninja

 

[Kwon Kwang]

Kwon, that SK-5 1,000+ cut test was pretty darn impressive

It's an honest test, too. If you look closely, you'll see that they're making those cuts with the same part of the blade.:thumbup:

Great response guys!

I think a few of you might have got the impression that I don't like the promotional videos -- nothing could be further from the truth! They are a bit silly, but it's all good fun and always entertaining!

I mentioned it because it's something people always use to mock CS...

I do think they are sometimes intended to be a little silly for the sake of entertainment, and Cold Steel isn't afraid to use a little self-deprecating humor (remember the meat bicycle?). It's all good fun, and it certainly is entertaining. I have like, four copies of Absolute Proof, and they're coming out with a new one soon!

I dont think cold steel is doing anything wrong imo. If they could upgrade and expand on there steel choices thatll be great. But lets face it, we are all knife nuts here. Who wont spend less than 5 mins at night to sharpen up there awesome heat treated aus 8 to razor sharpness??? And I like videos lol it shows that they arnt a bunch of uptight a$$ h*les, if you look at some youtube vids of the staff they all seem super laid back and knowledgeable people.

That's another thing I love about them. They're laid back, helpful, and they know what they're talking about. In their catalog, they say that Cold Steel staff are real experts. After looking at some of their employees, and speaking to them over the phone and on the internet, I am strongly inclined to agree.

I just want to reiterate that the last thing I wanted to do with this thread was denigrate any company whether cold steel, busse or zero tolerance or whatever. It was simply intended as a tongue in cheek comment about knife snobbery, something that we all risk -- myself very much included.

I also just wanted to a knife that has been getting the job done for over a quarter of a century!

I've loved this knife so much I've gone and bought myself another Kraton handled USA made Carbon V trail master....

I intend to buy a new SK-5 Trailmaster and a Southern Comfort sheath from Mike Sastre relatively soon. I know I'm going to just love it.

 

[hatidua]

http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/File:Cowboy2.jpg

This guy trusts his.... And he has an excellent beard so he must know his stuff!!

That truly is quite the whisker collection!

 

[philllll]

Wow, really nice to see Cold Steel's response. I personally get a kick out of the videos. Who wouldn't spend all day chopping up various hanging meats with swords if they had the chance?