Is Kershaw cooling?

MolokaiRider

MolokaiRider

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Sep 13, 2017
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Kershaw was a gateway brand for me. The Clash got me excited about knives, and kicked off my hoardi....errrr....collecting of knives.

They play with new designs, different alloys, and locks.

Nowadays it seems like they are cooling, and promoting inexpensive folders made from baseline materials.

I could be way off here, I'm sorta shooting from my gut feeling.

Are they losing us as knife enthusiasts?
 
I went through the line, buying all kinds of knives. I had a time where I wanted a knife with a decent steel but was not too expensive (Just afer my BudK days) and I got the RAT2. I saw Kershaw knives and yeah... they were just cheap, Chinese flippers that I see are continually pumped out, sometimes in really bad steels. They have knives in 3cr that are the same price I got my clean, white RAT2 for on Christmas sale at Ontario.

As I've been in the knife world, I see them continuing to do this, release a lot of really uninteresting, bad stuff. I'll admit they have a few cool designs here and there, though - for example, the wharncliffe you posted is nice, and I do think the Launch series seems cool (do not own one). They probably have a few knives made in some decent places with decent materials that are good users. It's a chore to sift through the tons of garbage to find the couple of gems, though.

Basically, they haven't appealed to me, but for the Launch. I've never been inclined to get a Kershaw, with what I own, especially. If I want a decently rough-tough user, I will grab a CS Grik, RAT1-2, Buck 110 LW... all great knives that I got for ~$25 give or take a few, new. If I had one, I wouldn't know what to do with it, l wouldn't carry it. Good for sharpening, I suppose. I last saw some Kershaws in the Big 5 next to the CS:GO Tiger Karambits, M-Techs, and War-Techs.
 
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Hashishiin said:
I went through the line, buying all kinds of knives. I had a time where I wanted a knife with a decent steel but was not too expensive (Just afer my BudK days) and I got the RAT2. I saw Kershaw knives and yeah... they were just cheap, Chinese flippers that I see are continually pumped out, sometimes in really bad steels. They have knives in 3cr that are the same price I got my clean, white RAT2 for on Christmas sale at Ontario.

As I've been in the knife world, I see them continuing to do this, release a lot of really uninteresting, bad stuff. I'll admit they have a few cool designs here and there, though - for example, the wharncliffe you posted is nice, and I do think the Launch series seems cool (do not own one). They probably have a few knives made in some decent places with decent materials that are good users.

Basically, they haven't appealed to me, but for the Launch. I've never been inclined to get a Kershaw, with what I own, especially. I'll never do anything with it. I last saw some Kershaws in the Big 5 next to the CS:GO Tiger Karambits, M-Techs, and War-Techs.
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That's interesting that you confirm they are not effectively marketing their higher quality models, and have more consumer focus on the entry level stuff.

And to be honest, the entry level knives are not even on my radar either, compared to conceivably higher value brands out there.
 
Yeah, exactly. When I was reminded recently of the Launch, I checked it out and every aspect was appealing.

I just had a look at the USA-made section of the Kershaw section of BHQ, and I actually like a lot of those, except for the recurves! If I had seen just these, separately from the mess of other stuff, I'd probably have one of those wharncliffe "Leek" type knives (dark purple one is sweet). I've seen them a lot, but I just assumed they were another 8cr, Chinese flipper. I had no idea it was 14c28n and USA made, which is partly my own ignorance, but you're right - they do not do a good job of differentiating those for the market who cares about that sort of thing...

...which I do understand is a small market share. They could still sell and market the Chinese flippers that I am sure are the vast majority of their sales, but similar to Spyderco's Byrd, Rough Ryder's Reserve, or Boker's Arbolito, they could have some type of differentiation for the higher or lower quality knives. This would sell them a few more knives, for sure.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Your answer is exactly what I was eluding too. They just don't see to inspire many of us as they used to.

I want to see them prosper and grow.
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I have always liked the fact that they have some US production.
One of my all time favorite knives is their US made Zing.

However, it seems like they are using inferior steels for overseas products.

Maybe they are trying to make their ZT line more upscale and Kershaw their budget line for the masses.

Just a thought.
 
MolokaiRider said:
And to be honest, the entry level knives are not even on my radar either, compared to conceivably higher value brands out there.
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Not on your radar anymore- but they were, when you first started. I'd guess they'll continue to do what they've been doing, marketing mostly entry level knives to entry level folks, and that's fine.
 
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sabre cat said:
I have always liked the fact that they have some US production.
One of my all time favorite knives is their US made Zing.

However, it seems like they are using inferior steels for overseas products.

Maybe they are trying to make their ZT line more upscale and Kershaw their budget line for the masses.

Just a thought.
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Speaking of how it is perceived in marketing: as someone who owns neither brand, that's how I've always viewed them. Tell me about a Kershaw, I have associations of "cheap, inferior, Chinese-made". Tell me about a ZT, and I'll think USA made, higher-quality, maybe some Elmax. These are the associations I have from what is out there.

I think he was referring when comparing to other budget work beaters like the RAT 2 or GRIK when saying they are off his radar - none of us want a 3cr Kershaw, I think. We're at least all considering 8cr in a budget Kershaw beater.
 
sabre cat said:
I have always liked the fact that they have some US production.
One of my all time favorite knives is their US made Zing.

However, it seems like they are using inferior steels for overseas products.

Maybe they are trying to make their ZT line more upscale and Kershaw their budget line for the masses.

Just a thought.
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Entirely plausible.
SimplyMinded said:
Not on your radar anymore- but they were, when you first started. I'd guess they'll continue to do what they've been doing, marketing mostly entry level knives to entry level folks, and that's fine.
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It certainly worked on reeling me in, I can't deny that.

The current formula must be working for KAI.

I guess I'm just internally wanting them to produce more hits like the Blur and Leek, that offered a variety of colors and steels.
 
Kershaw was an important stepping stone for me, even if I stayed there for over a decade. The Clash was also the last assisted knife I was excited about. (To be fair, the more recent M390 Dividend is the only assisted knife that's still in rotation, and mostly because I don't have a better tip-down shirt-pocket option.) There are reasons for my drift away.

Action is a big one. Assisted made sense way back when great manual flipper action was rare or expensive. Now good manual action on caged bearings is widely and cheaply available. A good manual knife feels better and is less complicated with less to go wrong. Now if I use an assisted knife, it feels straight-up janky to me.

Steel is another. Kershaw's budget stuff is stuck in the past with 8Cr13Mov (or worse). It's just not a good steel and too many Chinese companies offer better steels like 9Cr18Mov or 14C28N at competitive prices. The sad joke here is that 14C28N was created for Kershaw. They had exclusive use of it for years. Now, plenty of Chinese brands are selling knives in 14C28N at prices competitive with Kershaw's 8Cr13Mov and some of them might even be made in the same factories.

Yeah, Kershaw offers a few models in Chinese D2 at a premium. Similarly, too many Chinese companies are offering knives of the same quality or better in the same steel for less. I see Chinese D2 as a decent replacement for 8Cr13Mov at similar prices but overall, I'd rather have 9Cr18Mov, 14C28N, or N690 and I can find nice knives in those steels for like $50.
 
actually - Chronovore Chronovore kershaw using 8cr13mov isn't a problem... that is a decent steel when they heat treat it well,

the real let down, imho, is how they've embraced using 3cr13 and 4cr13 on many models
you really need to watch out... example - this 'rhetoric' model looks interesting, almost got one before realizing it was 3cr13
eyJidWNrZXQiOiAiZmlsZXMua25pZmVjZW50ZXIuY29tIiwia2V5IjogImtuaWZlY2VudGVyL2tlcnNoYXcvaW1hZ2VzL0tTMTM0Ml8xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjogeyJyZXNpemUiOiB7IndpZHRoIjogMjcwLCJoZWlnaHQiOiAyNzAsImZpdCI6ICJjb250YWluIiwiYmFja2dyb3VuZCI6IHsiciI6IDI1NSwiZyI6IDI1NSwiYiI6IDI1NSwiYWxwaGEiOiAxfX19fQ==
 
ZT has always been the upscale version, and it seems to me that for the most part, ZT has become their "enthusiast" division, and Kershaw their bulk, big box store brand. They still have the some nicer American made ones, but fewer than in the past.

The Launch series being the exception. My 8 is a well made knife in a good steel.

Unfortunately, I see most of the Kershaw line the same as I see S&W, knives that "look cool" in blister packs hanging on the shelf at Cabelas.
 
Chronovore said:
Kershaw was an important stepping stone for me, even if I stayed there for over a decade. The Clash was also the last assisted knife I was excited about. (To be fair, the more recent M390 Dividend is the only assisted knife that's still in rotation, and mostly because I don't have a better tip-down shirt-pocket option.) There are reasons for my drift away.

Action is a big one. Assisted made sense way back when great manual flipper action was rare or expensive. Now good manual action on caged bearings is widely and cheaply available. A good manual knife feels better and is less complicated with less to go wrong. Now if I use an assisted knife, it feels straight-up janky to me.

Steel is another. Kershaw's budget stuff is stuck in the past with 8Cr13Mov (or worse). It's just not a good steel and too many Chinese companies offer better steels like 9Cr18Mov or 14C28N at competitive prices. The sad joke here is that 14C28N was created for Kershaw. They had exclusive use of it for years. Now, plenty of Chinese brands are selling knives in 14C28N at prices competitive with Kershaw's 8Cr13Mov and some of them might even be made in the same factories.

Yeah, Kershaw offers a few models in Chinese D2 at a premium. Similarly, too many Chinese companies are offering knives of the same quality or better in the same steel for less. I see Chinese D2 as a decent replacement for 8Cr13Mov at similar prices but overall, I'd rather have 9Cr18Mov, 14C28N, or N690 and I can find nice knives in those steels for like $50.
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I hear ya. I equate the entry level stuff to be gasket scrapers or pick thorns outta boots.
dirc said:
actually - Chronovore Chronovore kershaw using 8cr13mov isn't a problem... that is a decent steel when they heat treat it well,

the real let down, imho, is how they've embraced using 3cr13 and 4cr13 on many models
you really need to watch out... example - this 'rhetoric' model looks interesting, almost got one before realizing it was 3cr13
eyJidWNrZXQiOiAiZmlsZXMua25pZmVjZW50ZXIuY29tIiwia2V5IjogImtuaWZlY2VudGVyL2tlcnNoYXcvaW1hZ2VzL0tTMTM0Ml8xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjogeyJyZXNpemUiOiB7IndpZHRoIjogMjcwLCJoZWlnaHQiOiAyNzAsImZpdCI6ICJjb250YWluIiwiYmFja2dyb3VuZCI6IHsiciI6IDI1NSwiZyI6IDI1NSwiYiI6IDI1NSwiYWxwaGEiOiAxfX19fQ==
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It sure looks nice though.
sabre cat said:
I like Kershaw’s 14C28N. It’s a great budget steel in my opinion.

I won’t consider anything in 3cr or 4cr.
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14c28n is a Goldilocks alloy for EDC knives. I really enjoy how it sharpens and performs overall.
 
K.O.D. said:
ZT has always been the upscale version, and it seems to me that for the most part, ZT has become their "enthusiast" division, and Kershaw their bulk, big box store brand. They still have the some nicer American made ones, but fewer than in the past.

The Launch series being the exception. My 8 is a well made knife in a good steel.

Unfortunately, I see most of the Kershaw line the same as I see S&W, knives that "look cool" in blister packs hanging on the shelf at Cabelas.
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I have a single ZT, and it certainly is nice. I wish I could try to Launch, but they aren't legal here as far as I know.
 
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