Is knife making worth it?

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Another great post!

We've got a pervasive concept in our society that seems to dictate that "If you make money at something you like to do." you life will be great. Every one of my hobbies ends up becoming my business eventually, and guess what? I have a pretty solid distaste for most of my previous hobbies now.

I've spent most of my adult life in between low paying self employed jobs, and high paying employed by others jobs. Now, I know ultimately I'm not destined to work for other people, but the "glamour" illusion of being "self employed and doing what I love" has seriously worn off for me. From my perspective, which I know is different from many; there's nothing easier than working for someone else. All you have to do is show up, do the work your told, be professional and get paid. No stress, if the environment gets bad, quit.

I'm not, and never plan to be a "full time" knifemaker, atleast as far as that being my sole or primary source of income. I like it too much to want to taint it like that. I make "things" full time, and knifemaking is part of my income, but only as much as I want it to be. I want to keep enjoying it until I'm old, and the only way for me to not resent it, is to never be forced to do it. Maybe that's just me, maybe it's generational. Maybe I'm just lucky to have other skills that make easier money.

I know it's different for everyone. I'd rather be one of these old guys that makes 4 or 5 "perfect" pieces a year, than to have to work my ass off making 200 to barely get by. Of course' it's all relative. If you've only ever made minimum wage working at mcdonalds, working for yourself and making minimum wage might seem like the high life. *shrug*

Anyway, I don't think it's sad to say at all that "good salary and benefits are not that important to most of us who love knives", unless of course, you're the boss employing them.. ;)


A. G. Russell said:
The FIRST thing a would be knifemaker needs is a WIFE who is willing to work her fingers off to allow him to do what he loves. That will bring him happiness but not money.

To make money in knifemaking you must begin by WORKING all day. You cannot visit with your buddies, run to the store 4 or 5 times a day, you cannot spend lots of time on the phone or the computerdd. Either knifemaking it fun enough or yoiu will not make much money. Corbet Sigman, Bob Dozier, D' Holder are examples of successful makers

Second you MUST be a business person or have a wife who is. You must know what your costs are and ways to shave them and to get more work done in less time.

It is important to remember that most knifemakers do not work very hard, they hunt when they want and fish when they want and spend lost and lots of time visiting with folks who will never buy one of their knives.

I have had lots of knifemakers work for me and with VERY RARE exceptions they have not worked out because they did not understand that the boss MUST make a profit on your work or the business will fail.

There are 8-5 jobs out there for knifemakers, I have two available but they will be filled with skilled folks who are willing to make knives to someone else's diriction and to put in a full day of focused work every day. Sad to say, a good salary and benifits are not that important to most of us who love knives.
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I agree, if you gotta ask... it's probably not the right path.

We live pretty simply, but have a pretty darn nice house (a lot nicer than the one I grew up in) and I have an awesome shop. Some months we live like Kings, some like paupers. It wouldn't be possible for me if Angi didn't work at a hospital, because that means we have medical.

We don't have fancy cars and trucks, but mostly because that isn't something that's important to us. We'd rather spend the money on things, that to us, are more substantial, like family- friends- and our home. Those things are much more likely to appreciate than a $50k truck.

I used to work at a paper mill and made 4 times the amount of money with half the time, and 1/100th of the skills required. But I hated that job. I hated half the dark cloud a-holes I worked with. Money makes some things easier, but it doesn't automatically make them BETTER.

Rick and I have a pretty darn similar philosophy on much of this. (accept I spent 20 years accumulating an a$$load of shop tools ;) :D ).



"The future is no place, to place your better days...." :)
 
A. G. Russell said:
It is important to remember that most knifemakers do not work very hard, they hunt when they want and fish when they want and spend lost and lots of time visiting with folks who will never buy one of their knives.
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You are my hero AG..
Great Post from a True Legend in the Knife Game..
Much Respect from South Texas.
[youtube]gmBluMyw3h4[/youtube]
 
I think that part of being successful at knife making is finding your own niche and making it work for you. There are hundreds of guys making hunting knives, and you can see tables of them at shows. They have a table full because they are either making a lot of knives or not selling the ones they have?

When the economy first tanked my sales slowed right down, and at the time I was making mostly art knives. People tightened their purse strings and were more frugal with their money. I looked at what was happening and decided I could keep doing what I was doing and become a collector of my own knives or make something else.

I took a Darwinism approach to my knife making, adapt or die!

I started making more practical folders with materials like carbon fiber and 154CM instead of damascus. So far it has worked and am on track to have a better year than the last. I also make a little bit of everything to keep it exciting for me and to keep my customers wondering what I will make next.

It has taken me a long time to get to this point but I have learned a lot along the way.
It's all part of paying your dues.
 
You have to be pretty remarkable to do this "he walks his own path listening to his very own drum". In many of my fields I find that even the elite have to listen to their dealers feedback.
I got excellent feedback and provisional acceptance in an art gallery if I did something (actually pretty rational). I chose not to since I enjoyed my variety. The most extreme (and irrational in my book) request I got from an art dealer was to start painting oils in the style of an artist who was leaving his gallery. Of course I could do it but it wouldn't have been honest art and to some degree it would have been theft.

Same thing for knife dealers. If I ever have the good fortune of getting represented you can bet anything that I will pay attention to that expert on marketing. In this world of knife making I have never heard of a dealer making the request to copy another artist. Different crowd.
 
I think this still fits the thread.
I wonder how many makers there are out there that can't totally dedicate themselves to their "dungeon" so to speak. I suspect this is an issue since the majority of makers I know are outdoors/wilderness types.
Personally I need to work outdoors or at least have a big North light window so I don't feel trapped.
If someone has this same mindset and has to work out of there basement (for example) then this might hamper the potential for income that is supportive or sustaining.
 
One $2,500 knife per month = $30,000 per year.

One $5,000 knife per month = $60,000 per year.

One $10,000 knife per month = $120,000 per year.

That's how it works, and you only have to make one knife per month... you can't beat that. :)
 
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I agree that if you take a hobby and try to make it into a business, you will lose the fun of the hobby.

I also agree that you have to work hard and produce work before you can attempt to make any money. Just sitting at the grinder doesn't do it, sitting at the grinder and producing a pile of blades might do it.

If you want to make money, get a job as a welder or machinist or plumber or doing automotive body work, and build knives on the side for fun. Working for someone else might not be as fun but on the other hand they have the responsibility of giving you a paycheck every week. I work for myself and haven't had a paycheck in 12 months.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
A person who can shadow me around the shop and pick up stuff I can't, empty chips, muck sumps etc, package parts and not break stuff $8.00/hr

A person who can do the above, and load parts into fixtures and press the green button without screwing up parts $10/hr

The above and can read prints and measure stuff, load and touch off tooling and fixtures and recognize small problems before they're big problems $12-$16/hr

But, what I need is a person who can help with quotes, select and purchase materials and cutters, develop good gcode in CAM from STEP files without supervision, and run machining centers without supervision. In an efficient manner and without breaking expensive things. And come in every day, without drama and substance abuse problems. $20-$25/hr



Oh hell man, wasn't that a year ago?
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Sounds pretty good in this economy. If I didn't already have a better paying job, I'd jump on it. I'd need at least $30 an hour on a 40 hour week to even budge.

… It hasn't been that long. Valentine’s day and anniversaries are the hardest to weasel out of... Ever try it?
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
A person who can shadow me around the shop and pick up stuff I can't, empty chips, muck sumps etc, package parts and not break stuff $8.00/hr

A person who can do the above, and load parts into fixtures and press the green button without screwing up parts $10/hr

The above and can read prints and measure stuff, load and touch off tooling and fixtures and recognize small problems before they're big problems $12-$16/hr

But, what I need is a person who can help with quotes, select and purchase materials and cutters, develop good gcode in CAM from STEP files without supervision, and run machining centers without supervision. In an efficient manner and without breaking expensive things. And come in every day, without drama and substance abuse problems. $20-$25/hr
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How do I apply?
 
bdmicarta said:
I agree that if you take a hobby and try to make it into a business, you will lose the fun of the hobby.
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I couldn't make a fulltime job out of music. I tried and didn't like it. I haven't had the same problem with knifemaking. Probably because I appraoched knifemaking as a business from the get go. No easing into it from a hobby. I was fortunate enough to get a kickstart from the Gov'ment through a Self Employment Benefit program they offered. I basically got EI for a year while I built my business. I was able to dedicate 8-10hrs a day 5-6 days a week to improving my knives and leather. I went to shows, seminars, workshops and worked with my friend and mentor, Wally Hayes. He introduced me to many of my best customers, dealers and technical contacts. I had a full year of hardcore KNIFE INDUSTRY education before I even sold my first blade. I could never have done that if I kept knifemaking as a part time hobby and attempted to ease into it. I have been very fortunate, indeed and try not to take anything for granted. As Mr Snody often says... "Much Respect".
 
Tai Goo said:
One $2,500 knife per month = $30,000 per year.

One $5,000 knife per month = $60,000 per year.

One $10,000 knife per month = $120,000 per year.

That's how it works, and you only have to make one knife per month... you can't beat that. :)
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Na, you gotta SELL one knife per month.
 
Hey Nathan,... how much would you pay for a guy to come sit in your office for a couple hours a day,... drink beer, smoke cigarettes and tell you how to make more money, when, where and why? ;) LOL
 
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Snody said:
You are Running the Train...
You need a cape a big "S" on your chest.. You are the Superman of Knifemaking..
Anyone that has "doubts" just needs to look at your story..
I spend lots of time reading your threads and looking at your work.
Your work ethic, business model and success are motivating people like me.
I am just a vagabond that jumped on the train but I am enjoying the ride and I believe in America..
You guys just keep it on the tracks and I will throw crab claws and empty bottles of Rozay at any other hobos trying to jump on.
I believe we are only limited by the limits we place upon ourselves..
Much Respect..
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Thank you Mike! But I'm just a regular guy that's been makin knives a long time.

You are one knife making machine yourself. And a funny dude!

Shrimp, crab claws and Rozay...:D :D :D
 
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Tai Goo said:
One $2,500 knife per month = $30,000 per year.

One $5,000 knife per month = $60,000 per year.

One $10,000 knife per month = $120,000 per year.

That's how it works, and you only have to make one knife per month... you can't beat that. :)
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Tai, it don't get no better than that! Just pick your price point. :D
 
Snody said:
You are my hero AG..
Great Post from a True Legend in the Knife Game..
Much Respect from South Texas.
[youtube]gmBluMyw3h4[/youtube]
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Great video...real natural and hooks you. Your knives are great but you've got camera presence as well-
Dean
 
Don Hanson III said:
Thank you Mike! But I'm just a regular guy that's been makin knives a long time.

You are one knife making machine yourself. And a funny dude!

Shrimp, crab claws and Rozay...:D :D :D
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Your Very Humble.

It would be extremely challenging to find six (6) Bladesmiths anywhere in the World that are better than you.

Even if you come up with six, not one of them is active on the forums (to the extent you are)

They are stuck in the turning lane, not one of them is mixing traditional with technology and turning heads with titanium..

(There are exceptions like Tai and The Treasure)

When potential clients visit Bladeforums they search makers of interest..

They search your post history.

They drink a redbull and spend six hours reading everything you have written for the last ten years.

When I search your post history I can see you are a Winner.

It makes me want to purchase your products and be associated with what you are doing..

My Clients do not want to Hear Labor Pains they just want to See the Baby..

My Clients have their own unique and individual problems and my job is to brighten their lives with a positive exchange followed by a positive experience followed by positive memories resulting in a positive bank account..

Have a great evening..
 
What an outstanding thread this has turned out to be. I can't help but notice that the contributors who are making a living doing what they love all have (at least) one thing in common: you can spot their work from across a crowded show room. You inspire me, gentlemen.
 
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