Is Survival Selfish?

[Tim the Wizard]

Jackrabbit, show us the way. Thank you for your insight.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

[ ... ] By serving and taking care of our own needs first, we can better serve our families, friends, and communities. [ ... ] When we look after our self first, we also won't have the need to seek fulfillment outside a healthy relationship because we're already fulfilled from within. [ ... ]
The irony is that being self-ish is one of the greatest ways we can serve one another. Being self-sacrificing is not.

Rabbi Hillel said: If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
If not now, when?

Altruism and self-respect are not in conflict. They complement each other.

 

[Jackrabbit Slim]

I like this sentence. It's in interesting point.

Thank you Shrub. The best thing we can do for ourselves and others is to question everything, especially and including that, which at first appears so seamless and commonplace that we forget it's even there.

The second is to face that which frightens us...gently, with understanding and compassion.

Jackrabbit, show us the way. Thank you for your insight.

I'm grateful it resonates with you Vayu. There's a wisdom that's inherent within each and every one of us, and I like to fit pieces of the puzzle together in ways that work for me. If this way works for even one other person, I am truly grateful to be of service.

Great to see some Fiddlebackers in here.

As far as survival goes, there's a point we reach where we realize that the only fear we have to face is the fear we carry within ourselves. That's the point where we begin to stop thinking in terms of me vs them, where we realize we're all in this together, and that there really is no "them." There's only us.

Rabbi Hillel said: If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
If not now, when?

Altruism and self-respect are not in conflict. They complement each other.

Both Rabbi Hillel's and your wisdom are echoed in many of the great religions, as well as with my own experience, Esav Benyamin. I love that he throws in the, "If not now, when?" into the equation. These are all powerful truths which help us to ease suffering of the human condition and to gain a greater sense of self, and peace within ourselves.

Anyway, time for me to take care of me. Enjoy your weekend everyone!

 

[baldtaco-II]

Yeah, for sure. That said, selfishness usually has pejorative connotations, so I'd probably unpack what it means to be selfish a bit. For example:

We have the type of selfishness that is an outward expression of what genes propel us toward. Look up self selection of replicators and good stuff like that. You can rootle around in kin selection models and all sorts of good stuff from evolutionary biology.

You could explore self interest from a more cognitive perspective. That would afford insights that old school biology alone can't really tap. It could transcend why a person might settle for a half used up woman or choose to share resources with a cuckoo's egg they have no relatedness to, and look at fun stuff like the perception of reward. One cannot meaningfully claim to know anything about altruism unless one has an understanding of what a reward can be, as altruism concerns behaving in ways without the perception of reward. If you perform a superficially selfless act that also ensures in your mind that you go to Valhalla, because your operating system has GOD V2.0 installed, then mebe that isn't a selfless as one might have uncritically thought. What of swerving being painted with a yellow stripe? Is swerving such a stripe selfish? We could go on. I don't think we need to here. It is sufficient to note that the concept of altruism and selfless behaviour degrades PDQ when you look at rewards. Note that avoiding averse stimuli is just as much a reward [selfish] as “sharing food with that fat kid made me feel benevolent”, “I became a hero and a legend to people I would prefer thought of me that way”, and Mother Teresa believing she'll get her hands on 72 virgins in some fantasy land. 'Till you can rule out what all possible perceptions of reward are there is no altruism. It's all selfish unless you are a nutter, because humans behave with reason and intent.

The last class is probably the one that is most salient as far as selfishness as something with negative connotations go because it concerns alliances and cheating. Self interested organisms can often behave in ways that maximizes the profits to each by behaving in cooperative ways. Hassles and aggravations can be overlooked because the sum of the rewards are bigger, and all the members of the collective benefit. Regardless of how sophisticated that is from; 1] can't think about it I'm a fish, 2] tacit agreement, 3] overtly stated [like marriage vows], it is all geared to the same ends. Membership within the group should return more sum profits that you would have had by not participating. On that, here concepts like pay-back, pay-forward, charity, Pro bono publico, you're putting yourself him harm's way cutting the bowbalds off the rapist doing something unspeakable to someone you don't give a shit about three roads away, can all be seen as selfish. You are supporting a system designed to bring you more rewards that you could access in isolation. But here's the crunch, there are cheats, and that is a selfishness with a completely different sort of loading. Defecting on your buddies with a middle of the night run to the turnip patch you are not entitled to is selfish too, but a bad kind of selfish because you have violated the rules of the game you agreed to because you benefitted from it. Enter green beards and grudgers, punishments and whatnot. Is it selfish of me to kick down morsels of food someone that can't hunt for themselves. Yeah if I'm plotting up on keeping a future babysitter alive. Different kind of selfish to “I'm growing him up so one day I can defect on my husband with him..” though, innit.

 

[neeman]

If survival is selfish, how do we look at rescue units

I served 12 years in a SAR unit
I was prepared to risk my life for someone else's survival
That was not selfish

 

[mtangent]

If survival is selfish, how do we look at rescue units

I served 12 years in a SAR unit
I was prepared to risk my life for someone else's survival
That was not selfish

It was very selfish of those needy people to accept your help. I can't imagine what they were thinking.

 

[baldtaco-II]

If survival is selfish, how do we look at rescue units

I served 12 years in a SAR unit
I was prepared to risk my life for someone else's survival
That was not selfish

I should imagine the fastest way is just by asking them the question “is doing that rewarding?”. I suspect most will say yes. The few that might say something along the lines of “no, it is not rewarding to me in any way I can think of”, I figure we could enlighten by poking them with further questions. “Oh yeah, I wouldn't find it as rewading as flipping burgers for the clown, even if that paid me $100 p/h and this pays me nothing”. Keep going at them 'till the light comes on. There's a pay-off in there somewhere, you just need to guide them to identifying it.

Beyond that, what I wrote above covers all this. Bit pointless to rummage around in specific instances when the mechanisms I described cover every instance, even suicide bombers.

 

[gadgetgeek]

But even in those emergency response/SAR situations, I would not put myself in undue danger to save someone. If I take a dumb risk, it may get myself and the other person, possibly my team-mates killed. So in a way survival is selfish in that I want to live, but I want to do so, so that I'm of further use to those around me. Sacrificing one's self for others very rarely works outside of hollywood.

 

[sams]

People act different when they are in danger and about to die. I saw it first hand. Selfish is for the living to ponder. Chosing life is not selfish IMO.

 

[Student762]

Survival can be selfish, if we look at it in that manner, but if we look at survival as the tool to unleashing ourselves so that we can do further good for others then I don't think of it as selfish at all.