Is the Axe outdated?

ROCK6 said:
Using an axe around the house is different when using the axe as a “bush” tool…the versatility is usually limited by skill and imagination.
ROCK6
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The same is true of a machete. A lot of people simply don't know how to utilize one to it's fullest potential in the woods. Joe has good video's about using a machete to accomplish "small knife" chores, as well as some "axe chores". A quality machete in the hands of an experienced user can do some incredible things. It's all about comfort-level with your particular choice of tools. For me, I feel like I can accomplish (with ease, honestly) all of the "axe chores" I run across with my machete. However, I can't accomplish the brush-clearing I need with an axe.
 
G'day EMT_Lee

EMT_Lee said:
The same is true of a machete. A lot of people simply don't know how to utilize one to it's fullest potential in the woods. Joe has good video's about using a machete to accomplish "small knife" chores, as well as some "axe chores". A quality machete in the hands of an experienced user can do some incredible things. It's all about comfort-level with your particular choice of tools. For me, I feel like I can accomplish (with ease, honestly) all of the "axe chores" I run across with my machete. However, I can't accomplish the brush-clearing I need with an axe.
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I'm not doubting that Joe knows how to use a machete, but in many years of reading his contributions on a number of internet forums, I do doubt he uses it on the sort of hardwoods I have access to.

I tell you what.

I'll throw down the gauntlet :D

If Joe wants a video taken on how one of his machetes goes on wood that is hard enough that it will make an axe bounce, he can send me one & I'll take an honest video of how it performs for me over here.

This should put the issue to rest once & for all :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick:D
 
I find that an axe chops better than a big knife.

Personally a khukuri is my favorite chopper. I find with an axe I have to change positions more.

However if that khukuri is exactly the same weight as an axe (an axe with a wooden handle) then the axe pound for pound chops deeper.

One thing you really need to have if you are going to compare an axe or a hatchet to anything else is a scale.

I persistantly hear people comparing hatchets and knives and machetes when the knives and machetes are heavier.

Now edge angle plays a huge role also but really one needs to weigh the two things to compare them.

For instance I have compared a GB Mini to a HI 12" Ang Khola and Pen Knive. The Mini chops better.

My 15" HI Bonecutter can outchop my Reeves double bit but it's 5 oz heavier.

Also a hatchet with a wooden handle if you are chopping for an extended period will be much easier on your tendons than any sort of full tang knife.

Where your big knife, khuk or machete excels is being sort of a jack of all trades.
 
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Most of the knife guys I run accross want to use their large knives as choppers out in the woods. I will take an axe any day of the week over just about any fixed blade knife used for chopping. I don't care much for hatchets however, and find them just about equal to the larger fixed blade knives for use. The knife (often a machete) probably gets the nod in this comparison for me.

My wife and I used to do a lot of car camping and after we set up camp, we would make a run looking for firewood. At first we wandered around near the camp site, then we just drove to less used places and started gathering wood. We'd pick up an entire pickup truck load (6-8 ft long logs usually) and haul it back to our campsite where we would proceed over time to cut it up into smaller pieces for use. A saw was the cutting tool of choice and an axe was used for trimming. We always shared our wood with others. We usually had a lot.
 
Please do not confuse in this discussion, a two handed axe with a one handed chopper of any kind.

35" to 25" two handed axes are swung and the force of the cut comes from using our arms as a flucrum to increase the speed of the cut.
Where the power of the blow is not neccessarily from our strenght but from our using our arms as a pivot.
We slide our hand down the handle to increase the speed of the down cut and control the angle of the blade by our right hand as the pivot.
We do not have to work too hard with a steady rythm and easy of our swing, and as we cut we lean back to increase the fulcrum
Totally different from a one handed tool, and much more effective.

A 19" axe or hatchet is very similar to a 23 oz 19" handled framing hammer.
We use one hand and need the power and strenght of our blow to make the cut effective.
The pivot is the shoulder not the whole body

Once we are discussing one handed choppers, we can now compare and prefer machetes, kuks, long knives and hatchets.

And let the chips fly.
 
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SouthernCross said:
G'day EMT_Lee



I'm not doubting that Joe knows how to use a machete, but in many years of reading his contributions on a number of internet forums, I do doubt he uses it on the sort of hardwoods I have access to.

I tell you what.

I'll throw down the gauntlet :D

If Joe wants a video taken on how one of his machetes goes on wood that is hard enough that it will make an axe bounce, he can send me one & I'll take an honest video of how it performs for me over here.

This should put the issue to rest once & for all :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick:D
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What "issue"? That an axe is better suited for processing large amounts of hardwood, compared to a machete? When was that argued? You making a video whacking the hardest wood you can find with a machete doesn't prove or disprove anything, except that you have a lot of time on your hands. Reread what I said. When did I say that a machete was the best tool for chopping down very hard trees? I didn't. It's a strawman argument. I said the machete works for me, in my given environment. If it doesn't for you... don't use one. I can go make a video of me trying to clear blackberry patches with an axe. It just proves that I'm using the wrong tool for the job.
 
I pretty much have to agree with Lee. I'm an avid user of hard woods and understand some of the issues. But, while watching an improperly made, sharpened, and designed machete (you can make them so they'll stick in the hardest woods, they just get more and more like KSAs) ---------- I won't use an axe on anything really hard, either. Oh, I suppose I could if every saw in the area went poof, but it'd suck.

Ain't no hatchet I've seen that'd cause me to particularly enjoy chopping ipe, or manzanita, or whatever. No axe, either.

Where I live, fortunately, a machete and a shortish axe (not hatchet, more like a collins or GB forest axe) are quite decent tools. Neither is outdated, but both need to be suited to the environment.

For example, I prefer a 1/8 thick, broad, short (12 to 16 inch blade) machete for most everything out here west of the Rockies.

Similarly, while some small hatchets are wonderful things for meat processing- really fantastic!- if I need more than a machete out here I'm dealing with... oh, say mesquite nodules or cottonwood or russian olive or pine over the wrist thick sapling stage. Scrub, valley, or blue oak, walnuts, apples, and various stone fruit/nut trees. I don't want a hatchet, I want a small axe. And it's very far from outdated, though if the job is bigger than 15 minutes, I do like me a chainsaw.

Hunting, camping, and desert ratting, the axe is ever present, and sometimes used. The machete is ever present and more often used do to local variations in the Basin environment.
 
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jeverettk said:
True, but either will give a green splitter a headache splitting green wood. After that first time, I learned that if I needed to split green, only split what I needed right then and finish off the rest when it's dried out some. Sad thing was my F-I-L was there and the old fart totally showed me up BAD. It was nice for him, though. Nowadays, I could probably beat him and a hydraulic splitter working together at the same time (mostly because they'd both still have to use more than one stroke to split a round into quarters:) ).
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If you're really a glutton for punishment try splitting large pieces of freshly-cut poplar! :foot: :p
 
An axe is a tool, and it does what it's made for better than other tools, and does things that other tools just can't.
So, no, it's not outdated. Just another tool in the box, same as it's always been.
The argument about weight, speed, energy is the same one that's been argued in ballistics circles for centuries. There is no one right answer.
 
SouthernCross said:
G'day EMT_Lee



I'm not doubting that Joe knows how to use a machete, but in many years of reading his contributions on a number of internet forums, I do doubt he uses it on the sort of hardwoods I have access to.

I tell you what.

I'll throw down the gauntlet :D

If Joe wants a video taken on how one of his machetes goes on wood that is hard enough that it will make an axe bounce, he can send me one & I'll take an honest video of how it performs for me over here.

This should put the issue to rest once & for all :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick:D
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I just saw this now.
Give me your address. I'd like to see what kind of wood ya'll have there. I can chip an axe or a machete in wood if I wanted to, on pine even. Don't try and chip it just to do it. Just use it on your wood how you would, a normal camping experience, not trying to build a log cabin. That is what an axe is for.
 
;)I believe an axe(or hatchet IMO) is only suited for the cabin or your home and only for splitting large logs that have been cut flat with a saw paired with a large, raised, flat stump to place the logs on. In the woods I will always prefer a large fixed blade with at least an 9"(pref 10") blade at least 1/4"(pref 5/16") thick.

Axe:

PROS: Tough to damage(the head anyway) cross cuts better than a large knife(some would say and be wrong IMO) splits wood better some would say(wrongly).

CONS: Heavy, Large size is cumbersome, small cutting surface, not as sharp, dulls faster(tempered softer for impact resistance), not good at all for small tasks(yes I said NO GOOD AT ALL), requires much skill, accuraccy, endurance. Very hard to use one handed(if injured for ex). Even carrying an axe let alone using it in any way uses a ton of energy(not good for the outdoors), if the handle breaks(which I have done) it is now useless.


Large Fixed Blade - A kukri to stick with OP, or even a good large bowie(BK9)

Pros: COMPACT AND LIGHTER WEIGHT, long blade can crosscut a large log(might take longer but will use less energy IME), long blade can split into much smaller pieces and with less energy spent. While maybe not ideal for small chores still leaps and bounds better than an axe or hatchet(try skinning, building traps/snares, or doing any food prep with an axe).
Even carrying a large fixed blade, and a small fixed blade, and a folding saw and a SAK or Multi Tool still is less weight than most axes and supremely more capable.

Cons: More prone to breakage(not likely in most cases, but you'd still have usable cutting surfaces), crosscuts slower(not if you pair it with a saw). Ummmmm........thats all I can think of(and those aren't cons in my book)

But I might be biased...I don't know...:rolleyes: If I missed anything or was wrong in anyones opinion please reply.
 
tribalmagnum05 said:
;)I believe an axe(or hatchet IMO) is only suited for the cabin or your home and only for splitting large logs that have been cut flat with a saw paired with a large, raised, flat stump to place the logs on. In the woods I will always prefer a large fixed blade with at least an 9"(pref 10") blade at least 1/4"(pref 5/16") thick.

Axe:

PROS: Tough to damage(the head anyway) cross cuts better than a large knife(some would say and be wrong IMO) splits wood better some would say(wrongly).

CONS: Heavy, Large size is cumbersome, small cutting surface, not as sharp, dulls faster(tempered softer for impact resistance), not good at all for small tasks(yes I said NO GOOD AT ALL), requires much skill, accuraccy, endurance. Very hard to use one handed(if injured for ex). Even carrying an axe let alone using it in any way uses a ton of energy(not good for the outdoors), if the handle breaks(which I have done) it is now useless.


Large Fixed Blade - A kukri to stick with OP, or even a good large bowie(BK9)

Pros: COMPACT AND LIGHTER WEIGHT, long blade can crosscut a large log(might take longer but will use less energy IME), long blade can split into much smaller pieces and with less energy spent. While maybe not ideal for small chores still leaps and bounds better than an axe or hatchet(try skinning, building traps/snares, or doing any food prep with an axe).
Even carrying a large fixed blade, and a small fixed blade, and a folding saw and a SAK or Multi Tool still is less weight than most axes and supremely more capable.

Cons: More prone to breakage(not likely in most cases, but you'd still have usable cutting surfaces), crosscuts slower(not if you pair it with a saw). Ummmmm........thats all I can think of(and those aren't cons in my book)

But I might be biased...I don't know...:rolleyes: If I missed anything or was wrong in anyones opinion please reply.
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To me axe also means hatchet so lets take my GB mini.
Lighter AND shorter then a big knife.
May dull faster but is easier to sharpen and is less prone to chipping. Has enough edge holding that I've never had to sharpen it while in the field so it's a moot point.
Will completely out do any large knife for carving traps and the like while still retaining a high degree of chopping power.
Splitting is done from the side and not on end so that point is moot.
And cross cutting logs is for suckers whether you're using a knife or axe so that point is moot.
In all honesty it just plain sounds like you don't know how to use an axe. But hey you love your knife and that's cool.

Edit to add: I forgot that the smaller cutting surface has greater penetrating power while chopping so that's another plus 1. ;)
 
Shotgun said:
To me axe also means hatchet so lets take my GB mini.
Lighter AND shorter then a big knife.
May dull faster but is easier to sharpen and is less prone to chipping. Has enough edge holding that I've never had to sharpen it while in the field so it's a moot point.
Will completely out do any large knife for carving traps and the like while still retaining a high degree of chopping power.
Splitting is done from the side and not on end so that point is moot.
And cross cutting logs is for suckers whether you're using a knife or axe so that point is moot.
In all honesty it just plain sounds like you don't know how to use an axe. But hey you love your knife and that's cool.

Edit to add: I forgot that the smaller cutting surface has greater penetrating power while chopping so that's another plus 1. ;)
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First off, I completely 100% agree with you that crosscutting with an axe or knife is a wash, as well as the edge chipping and sharpening(worth it IMO), I stated it for comparison purposes mostly on energy expenditure. Also while I am by no means a profesional bushcrafter nor axe/hatchet user, I have used axes and hatchets since I was very young on camping/hinking/hunting trips for a lot of tasks from splitting to cross-cutting(I know), to carving wood shavings etc. I only within the past few years switched to a large blade/smallblade/SAK/saw system, in my experience I could do most outdoor tasks in less time, with less energy and special skill knowledge than with an axe or hatchet. I know most tasks are interchangable between both tools, but in my experience I could perform tasks faster and easier with a large knife over a hatchet or axe.

In the end I want someone to choose and use whatever it is that works for them, even if it's a sharp rock. Axes and hatchet just don't do it for me and I clearly stated the reasons why.
 
tribalmagnum05 said:
First off, I completely 100% agree with you that crosscutting with an axe or knife is a wash, as well as the edge chipping and sharpening(worth it IMO), I stated it for comparison purposes mostly on energy expenditure. Also while I am by no means a profesional bushcrafter nor axe/hatchet user, I have used axes and hatchets since I was very young on camping/hinking/hunting trips for a lot of tasks from splitting to cross-cutting(I know), to carving wood shavings etc. I only within the past few years switched to a large blade/smallblade/SAK/saw system, in my experience I could do most outdoor tasks in less time, with less energy and special skill knowledge than with an axe or hatchet. I know most tasks are interchangable between both tools, but in my experience I could perform tasks faster and easier with a large knife over a hatchet or axe.

In the end I want someone to choose and use whatever it is that works for them, even if it's a sharp rock. Axes and hatchet just don't do it for me and I clearly stated the reasons why.
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Agree 100% I was just giving counter points. The most efficient tools as far as time and energy savings that I've found is a pruning saw paired with a small belt knife. I find all the tools discussed useful though and only choose axes because I like them the most. There's something nostalgic for me in carrying a tomahawk.;)
 
Is the Axe outdated?

IMHO only for back packing and hiking where you want to carry as little as possible because of weight and room to carry.

Homesteading is another matter and something I didn't see much of on this forum. Without power tools the axe and crosscut saw are still very useful tools, even today.

BTW when using a large knife for hours doing chopping chores your wrist really takes a pounding.
 
Chris Pierce said:
Sounds like you need to go out and buy an axe and use it some.
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Agreed. Also check out Mors Kochanski's Bushcraft book for a good explanation of how to properly use an axe. Most chopper/slicer blades simply cannot do the same things with the same degree of efficiency.

Also, there is a Ray Mears video where he's in Sweden (I think) and shows how a guy makes a pair of skis with an axe as the primary tool. This really showed me how versatile the axe is at all sorts of tasks and not just swinging it at stuff.
 
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