Is the Benchmade opening hole wrong?

I'll play devil's advocate here. I have no knowledge of any legal-smeagle between the companies, but all I hear is one-sided viewpoints on this. Here's a different take on it:

allyourblood said:
For me personally, I will never own a Benchmade with a round opening hole until an amicable agreement has been made public. And that simply hasn't happened yet. If you research the topic, you will find that at some point, Sal basically stated something to the effect of, "Spyderco and Benchmade have reached an agreement", but he won't specify the details. That isn't enough to convince me that the deal is honorable and fair to both parties, and I'm certain it's not. Until Sal goes on record saying as much, I'll stay away from any BM knife that steps on Spyderco's trademark (whether it's enforceable or not).
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What's "honorable" or "fair?" Trying to trademark something that violates trademark rules? How about pressuring a company to honor trademark laws that they should have honored in the first place? Maybe that's more "honorable, and "fair" to us consumers. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Spyderco isn't happy with the deal. They're possibly on thin ice if taken to court over it and would most likely lose the hole "trademark" completely. If Benchmade & Spyderco come to an agreement that allows Benchmade to use the hole in exchange for not challenging a very questionable trademark in court (thus allowing Spyderco to keep it and license/allow it to others for a small fee), isn't that "honorable" and "fair?"

I only know that Benchmade could've done just about anything other than putting a round opening hole on some of their knives and people would still buy and appreciate them, never questioning their functionality. But they chose to use Spyderco's most iconic symbol (even more so than the "bug") without ever giving credit or receiving any sort of official "blessing" (at least, not any that Sal was comfortable enough offering up in a public space). That speaks volumes to me and I will continue to vote "nay" with my dollars.
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And why wasn't Sal comfortable with it? Pure speculation here (just like others are doing toward Benchmade), but perhaps it's because he knows (or his lawyers told him) that trademarking the hole was on very shaky legal ground -- as in, they slipped one past the trademark people -- who didn't catch it -- and it never should have been granted in the first place. Keep that quiet, let Benchmade use it in exchange for not being challenged -- and probably losing completely -- and things will stay rosy. Like I said, pure speculation, but based on as much fact as people's speculation on Benchmade's motives. People badmouth Benchmade, but by extension, they're badmouthing Les, who, from all accounts I read about the guy, is a great guy. What do they base their badmouthing of Les on? Baseless speculation about his motives.

Planterz said:
For those that say "you can't trademark a hole", well, Spyderco did, ... The round opening hole, and indeed the round hole in general (they put it even on their fixed blades), is iconic of Spyderco, as much as their bug logo is. Of course, a round hole somewhere on a knife isn't exclusive to Spyderco, but the round opening hole is, and is recognized as such by the government of the United States of America.
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Just because you slip one past the gov't and ignore the intent of trademark law doesn't mean it's OK. It means that you slipped one past the gov't.

yablanowitz said:
Why didn't Sal protect his trademark more strongly? Maybe because Benchmade is a company about four times the size of Spyderco, with four times as much money to pay lawyers in a court battle. You can't win in civil court if your funds can't go the distance. Welcome to reality.
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Or maybe because the trademark is on such shaky legal ground that you can't really protect it if challenged. You don't want to risk losing it entirely, so you come to an agreement that let's one of your competitors use it in exchange for your competitor not forcing you under court order to honor the intent of trademark law instead of slip one past Uncle Sam...

Y'all can be bitter about it if you want, but doing so causes you to miss out on good knives, just as those who are Benchmade-only fans are missing out on great knives. Personally, I would love to see a Paramilitary or some other Spyderco with an Axis lock. Heck, being so bloody left-handed as I am, I would love to see S'co make more 3.5-4" ambidextrous knives that aren't lockbacks ( I fully intend on owning a Manix 2 with some premium steel). OTOH, it's probably a good thing they don't make more BBL knives, as I would be even more dirt poor than I already am!:D

Nullifying Benchmade's license agreement under the patent if BKC didn't do what they were supposed to was the right thing to do. Trying to enforce an unenforceable (and questionable) trademark...? Oh, and for the record, the only Benchmade knife I have with a Spyderhole was properly licensed -- a left-handed mini-AFCK. Over time, I've actually come to prefer thumb studs and switched my knives with holes to thumbstud versions.
 
loonybin said:
What's "honorable" or "fair"?
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I already stated what I felt was honorable and fair. I was quite clear. I'm not going to get into the legalities of it because just like you, I'd be speculating. It's my opinion and I'm sharing it. You can talk about trademarks all day long but you're just guessing. I feel a certain way and wanted to share my thoughts with others.

And why wasn't Sal comfortable with it?
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Why don't you ask him? The rest of us know why.

If you can't understand why Benchmade's actions have made people frustrated I don't know what to tell you. As I started earlier, I know some people don't agree with me, and I'm okay with that. I don't hate Benchmade nor do I want to see them run out of town on a rail. They produced some of my favorite knives ever; I just won't buy the products they make that use the round opening hole. For me, this has nothing to do with the law, as I've already stated. I simply do not approve.
 
Doesn't the Sage 3 have an axis lock? Or do they call it something else? Sal probably gets a few bucks each time BM sells a knife with a hole in it!
 
Striderco said:
Doesn't the Sage 3 have an axis lock? Or do they call it something else? Sal probably gets a few bucks each time BM sells a knife with a hole in it!
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Hahahahahahahaha - proof that it really doesn't matter what they put in the catalog, on the side of the box, or in numerous threads on a forum.

stabman said:
I like Spydercos.
I also like Benchmades.
I like holes, studs, disks, and waves.
I also like fixed blades, including the ones I have made.

I am an all around, unabashed knife whore.:thumbup:
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Best post in this thread.

This thread has made me purchase another Spyderco in support of Sal. I also took out my Benchmades and farted on them. I feel like I did what was right and just.
 
loonybin said:
Or maybe because the trademark is on such shaky legal ground that you can't really protect it if challenged. You don't want to risk losing it entirely, so you come to an agreement that let's one of your competitors use it in exchange for your competitor not forcing you under court order to honor the intent of trademark law instead of slip one past Uncle Sam...
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And yet, twenty-five years later Sal was able to register the comet-shaped hole as a trademark for the Byrd series of knives. Go figure. As Sal once said, "what people don't understand is you can easily bankrupt your company trying to protect yourself from copycats". Sal has first-hand experience in taking on much larger companies in court.
 
I believe Bechmade and Spyderco are both big boys and can sort out whatever they have got between themselves without getting me involved. ;)
 
Poez said:
I believe Bechmade and Spyderco are both big boys and can sort out whatever they have got between themselves without getting me involved. ;)
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Ah, I bet they both were about to give you a call :p
 
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