Is the Cold Steel Trail Master still made by Hattori in Japan? Update, received my specimen...

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

Beautiful way of displaying some favorite knives.
I love the old Schatt & Morgan show case.

Thank you!

I remember when I first received it... It had this thick foam inside of it that one was supposed to press your knives into it and the glass door was supposed to keep them pushed into the foam when it was closed.
I did not realize that it worked this way when I purchased it.
So, I removed all of that foam and simply lined the inner case with a nice velvety material. Of course the display has to be laid flat on a table and such for me to then just place the items into it.
There are some Queens & Schatts in it, but the reflection of my lamp hides the contents pretty well in the photo.

Thanks again!

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

I received my Cold Steel VG-1 San Mai III Trail Master today. I got home from work and it was my first mission to get the package open to inspect my new addition to my collection.

I will say, that it met all my expectations! Super stoked about the overall fit and finish of this knife, and super glad I chose to get it!

The box is still from the original Lynn Thompson era, even still having the Ventura California address printed on it. The blade markings on both sides are also what they were under Lynn's ownership of the company.

Yup, definitely no regrets, and I am one that tends to be very picky/critical when inspecting any new acquisition, and this just makes me smile

Imo, the blade's fit & finish on this knife is truly a work of art!

 

[tess_lawrie_fan]

The convex grind is absolutely awesome.

If you're reading this and you work in the "big store", please send one to Brazil. Thanks!

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

This is not the greatest picture, but it does vaguely show the lamination line on the blade's cutting edge. Also, one can sort of get an idea of how the convexed shape looks on this blade.



google photos high quality
The above photo shows my new Cold Steel Trail Master placed into a display case right underneath my Boker Arbolito 'El Gigante' model, (which has Stag handle scales & a 690 Bohler stainless steel blade).
Anyhow, when I first bought the Boker, I thought it was basically a copy'ish knife to the Trail Master, but... now with my owning both, I realize that my assessment was incorrect. The only thing they are very similar in, is that both are in the large outdoor Bowie genre of knives. But, otherwise, they are truly two different animals.
Since both of these knives were acquired by me to be additions to my collecting hobby, (AKA: not to be user knives), I can't comment one way or the other as to which may be best at this or that in use.
With that said, if you also have one of these in your possession as a collection piece, but not the other, I highly recommend acquiring the other one too. They both represent some extremely nice production knife quality. I think if you like owning these types of large Bowie knives, they are bound to make you smile... not just once, but twice!





As for the pricing on these two knives, the Boker Arbolito was $225 + S&H and Tax.
The Cold Steel was almost $270 in total.

I know that's not chump change for most folks, (it most definitely isn't for me), but... The newer version of the Trail Master, (made in Italy with 3V steel), was priced at almost full MSRP at the same vendor website I got my Japanese made Trail Master VG-1 San Mai III version from.
So, comparing the pricing of the Italian made vs the Japanese made models, the Japanese made Trail Master is quite the deal, (when one considers that both MSRP prices for these Trail Masters are actually only a $40 difference between them).
I was sticker shocked to see the Italian 3V version priced at the $460 range, although it's full MSRP is at $540.
The Japanese made Trail Master in VG-1 San Mai III selling on that same website for a $270'ish price, and full MSRP listed at $500... makes me scratch my head as to why the Italian model is being sold at such a high price that approaches it's MSRP.
Anyhow, the Boker Arbolito 'El Gigante' in 690 Bohler AND the Cold Steel 'Trail Master' in VG-1 San Mai III, can BOTH be had for about $520.

The 3V steel Trail Master should prove to be a great steel for a hard use outdoor knife, (based on reviews of the qualities of this steel when properly heat treated and such).
As for the blade's grind, this stock photo of one seems to show it as being a full flat grind.


As for the VG-1 San Mai III Japanese made version, it's still obviously done with a convexed blade.
I remain convinced that my guess about the San Mai version being phased out now will turn out to be true.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

So, with my reading up a little bit more about the Trail Master, I ran across some info mentioning that recent TM SM3 knives had received a slight specifications change to it's kraton type handle. The change was that the molded texture was now more of a pebbled pattern, replacing the previous molded diamond pattern.

Well... my recently received specimen has the diamond pattern.

I found the following picture online showing the pebbled pattern that was supposedly being used to replace the diamond pattern...



So, I ask myself these questions...
Maybe they decided to go back to the diamond pattern, and so the diamond pattern IS the current pattern being used?
Or, maybe my specimen was made during the diamond pattern time, it making it a bit of a "new old stock" item situation?

I dunno. Anyone that may have any ideas concerning this matter, I would be interested to hear what you have to say.
Thanks!

Btw, I do prefer the look of the diamond pattern over the pebbled appearance, so it's no issue, it's just a curiosity thing with me.

*Adding in some more observations I now have garnered concerning this matter about the pebble vs. diamond pattern on the Cold Steel Trail Master VG-1 San Mai III offering...

While perusing Cold Steel's 2021 catalog on their website, I looked closely at the photo of the knife, and it does in fact show it as having the pebbled pattern.
I also took a look at their 2019 and 2020 catalogs and, yes, those too show the picture of their TM VG-1 SM3 with the pebble textured handle. I did not go back through any more of their catalogs, but for sure the pebble textured handle goes back at least three years now.
Even the Cold Steel box that my TM came in, has a picture on it of a TM with the pebbled texture handle.... Hmm?
So, I am only doing some fun guessing here...

With Cold Steel listing their TM in San Mai as being out of stock on their website, and seemingly most vendors that were out of stock with them, now seemingly having them back in stock again, could it be because Cold Steel cleared out their remaining inventory of them in a phasing out process that possibly included selling off their remaining TM that may have still had the old diamond pattern grip handles?
Like I had mentioned earlier about the specimen that I received, it came in a Lynn Thompson era box with the Ventura California address, and the blade markings still being what they were under Lynn Thompson's ownership of the company. That in itself may not point to anything in particular, but tied with the fact that the grip has the diamond pattern texture as well... Maybe there is something there to my guesses.
There's one other reason that I was thinking may easily explain my specimen having the diamond pattern texture on it's handle, and that is, material/parts shortages.
I mean, whatever the supplier is for the 'Kray-ex' (their Kraton like rubber'ish material), could have been having raw material shortages, maybe employee shortages, or some other pandemic induced issues that may have caused the handles to be delayed in their production. Many manufacturing facilities, of all sorts, have run into such issues during this crazy period, and they either stop altogether making whatever it is that they make, or they try finding equivalent substitutes. In this case, maybe the new pebble textured handles were ceased because of some sort of shortage, but if the old diamond pattern handles were still in their inventory, they could have chosen to continue by using them again to keep the TM production going.

I purchased mine from Knifecenter, which in my experience with them, will take advantage of buying discontinued, (or soon to be discontinued), merchandise from the manufacturers at good pricing, and then sell those products at some savings to their own customers.
I have a feeling that this is what we are seeing with these TM's in the VG-1 SM III.

Pics I got from the CS 2021 online catalog...

 

[nephron]

I just picked up one on here for $180 NIB(my son's Xmas present I think). It has the new box but it is the diamond pattern on it and the box. I was unaware of the new pattern, any other pattern I thought was a fake. Damn now its going to harder to find the fakes. Obviously yours is real, Knife Center don't do fakes and the Catalog pictures confirm it. I swear it looks just like some fakes(for sure fake), pretty funny I guess. Its weird they are not made in Taiwan with VG 10, the new pattern means(I think anyway)they have been made recently in Japan.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

I believe that the reason they kept making the VG1 SM3 Trail Master in Japan, had to do with it's Convexed blade and cutting edge. There needs to be some human hands to do that, and apparently it wasn't their Taiwan source's forte.
What draws me most to the Trail Master, is that convexed blade
Congrats on your score, buddy!

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

For anyone that may come across this thread, and has purchased a new Trail Master VG-1 San Mai III within the past 3 or 4 years, please post a picture here of your knife, and let us know what texture your Kray-Ex handle came with, (pebbled or diamond/checkered).
Thanks in advance!

 

[KenHash]

My SM III TM I bought in 2014 had the Pebble Pattern.
My SM III TM bought just this past month has the Diamond pattern.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

My SM III TM I bought in 2014 had the Pebble Pattern.
My SM III TM bought just this past month has the Diamond pattern.

Thanks for sharing.
I had no idea about the pebble texture going that far back.

 

[KenHash]

Thanks for sharing.
I had no idea about the pebble texture going that far back.

The Diamond pattern was used on the first Stainless TMs made in Japan. That changed to the pebble I think in 2007 which is when
the guard changed. I wasn't aware that CS had changed the handle pattern back until now.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

The Diamond pattern was used on the first Stainless TMs made in Japan. That changed to the pebble I think in 2007 which is when
the guard changed. I wasn't aware that CS had changed the handle pattern back until now.

Hmm, that's interesting. I really do appreciate your input, thanks!

I wonder if the pebble textured handle was only being done with the Japanese San Mai Trail Master, with the other origin Trail Master knife sources using the checkered/diamond pattern? If so, maybe they decided to standardize the handles for all Trail Masters into just the one diamond pattern.
I mean, if the contracted knife manufacturers were not making the handles themselves in house (with their own injection molding tools), and if Cold Steel was using more than one maker to supply them with the TM handles, then I could see CS making the decision to standardize the handle to just one maker and one pattern. This would especially make sense if one manufacturing source was costing them more than the other(s). Bean counters look for cost cutting, no matter how little that bean savings may be. In the end, enough little savings here and there, will likely add up to being worth their efforts in making such a change.

Maybe, if more folks chime in with their own previous Trail Master San Mai knife purchases, we'll be able to narrow down the time frame in which the diamond/checkering pattern was reintroduced on them, (if that indeed is the case now).

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

Here's a basic description I found online concerning San Mai steel...

"San Mai steel is Japanese in origin and aims to achieve specific goals in its composition and construction process. Its name, translated from the original Japanese, roughly comes to mean “three parts”, which is a very apt description for the makeup of these blades. The makeup of the blade is rather simple; the central core of the blade (the part that becomes the edge) is made with a harder steel, whereas the two outer edges beyond that point are made up of a milder, more pliable steel. Its these materials that are what San Mai steel is made of."

The San Mai steel is a big reason that I personally wanted to own a Cold Steel Trail Master in VG-1 San Mai III.
You see, it's not that it's a magical material, but...
It's roots are in Japan.
The steel itself is very likely sourced from a Japanese based company.
The manufacturer of these knives for Cold Steel is said to be Hattori, which is a Japan based company and owned by a Japanese citizen.

Yup, I get a kick out of the origin of this knife, and it's uniqueness when compared to other CS Trail Master knives coming from other origins.

 

[KenHash]

San Mai translates to "Three Sheets". (Not Three Parts) It is just one of many methods used in Japanese sword making.
True San Mai, which is what Cold Steel uses, would show the core steel at the top of the spine. A Warikomi would be similar construction
but the core steel (hagane) does not come all the way through to the top, it is "capped" by the jigane (cladding).
Here, the the second from right top row is "San Mai" :

On knives that have a Carbon Steel Core with a Stainless cladding, with true San Mai you can easily see the patina on the core steel
even on the spine and through the full tang. (The vertical lines on the blade in the photo are a reflection of the wood grain on the table).

Because Cold Steel has only offered Stainless Core/Stainless Cladding (Aus8/VG1/VG10) it really hard to see this, However, if one looks very carefully under good lighting, the VG1 core can be seen running through the center of the spine.

The above is from my SM III Trail Master. The Core runs all the way through the spine and the swedge (false edge), where there is a lamination line.

These can be seen on any CS San Mai knife. It also serves to authenticate the knife, since Chinese counterfeits of CS knives have either had the lamination line along the edge missing, or a fake line etched in, but only along the cutting edge.

 

[DayofReckoning]

How important, and how concerned should one be with the accuracy of the San Mai lines? The Trailmaster sample I received, it's San Mai layer was double the width on one side versus the other. I own two other Cold Steel San Mai knives (Tai Pan/ MagnumTanto XII), and the lines on both are pretty darn uniform and straight throughout the blade. The Trailmaster was enough out of spec that it bothered me so I returned it.

Does it really make much difference in usage other than cosmetics?

 

[nephron]

How important, and how concerned should one be with the accuracy of the San Mai lines? The Trailmaster sample I received, it's San Mai layer was double the width on one side versus the other. I own two other Cold Steel San Mai knives (Tai Pan/ MagnumTanto XII), and the lines on both are pretty darn uniform and straight throughout the blade. The Trailmaster was enough out of spec that it bothered me so I returned it.

Does it really make much difference in usage other than cosmetics?

My understanding is no, a few sharpenings and it would even up I believe, but I don't think it matters(looks more hand made rather than CNC'ed). Looking at some of my Spyderco clad knives the lines vary somewhat too.

 

[KenHash]

How important, and how concerned should one be with the accuracy of the San Mai lines? The Trailmaster sample I received, it's San Mai layer was double the width on one side versus the other. I own two other Cold Steel San Mai knives (Tai Pan/ MagnumTanto XII), and the lines on both are pretty darn uniform and straight throughout the blade. The Trailmaster was enough out of spec that it bothered me so I returned it.

Does it really make much difference in usage other than cosmetics?

In usage, not at all.
If for a collection, yes, aesthetically. I personally have never had a San Mai knife with a lamination line so uneven that I had to return/exchange it.
But yes, although pretty rare, every now and then one will pop up.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

If for a collection, yes, aesthetically.

I agree with you on this.

And, I feel it should matter a lot in the price that one winds up paying for the item.

As an example, lets imagine the fairly expensive American sports car, the Chevy Corvette.
Yes, there are quite a few reasons for it's price tag.
A few of these reasons are...

It's reputation for being an iconic American sports car, (even if today's models are likely made with a lot of foreign components).

It's reputation for it's performance, (it's power, speed, and other such things).

It's cost in manufacturing it.

And, how about this one... It's appearance/styling.

So, if a brand new Corvette was sitting on a dealer's lot, and it had a major factory flaw with it's exterior paint job, let's say... A defective paint wound up being used on it and it was peeling.
How fast would it sell as is, even for those that mostly want one for it's performance?
My guess would be that if the dealer wanted to sell it without having the finish redone, it would have to first have it's price dropped quite a bit for someone to bite.
Again, the paint issue wouldn't hurt the car's performance, but much of the car's price tag is also because if it's appearance, and if that is screwy on it, it's value takes a big hit.

Now, if a guy wanted a Trail Master for use only, and absolutely gave not one care about how the knife looked, he would likely bite on one that may have some cosmetic issues, but with a good cost savings discount thrown in to the deal.
He would obviously know that part of the selling price was because of an expected appearance, and if that look ain't there, then neither should the extra pricing for that feature

 

[KenHash]

I used to have a 1978 Corvette back in the day. When such things mattered to me..lol.
Imperfect lamination line knives should be sold as "seconds" for those who care only
about the performance.

 

[nephron]

I agree with you on this.

And, I feel it should matter a lot in the price that one winds up paying for the item.

As an example, lets imagine the fairly expensive American sports car, the Chevy Corvette.
Yes, there are quite a few reasons for it's price tag.
A few of these reasons are...

It's reputation for being an iconic American sports car, (even if today's models are likely made with a lot of foreign components).

It's reputation for it's performance, (it's power, speed, and other such things).

It's cost in manufacturing it.

And, how about this one... It's appearance/styling.

So, if a brand new Corvette was sitting on a dealer's lot, and it had a major factory flaw with it's exterior paint job, let's say... A defective paint wound up being used on it and it was peeling.
How fast would it sell as is, even for those that mostly want one for it's performance?
My guess would be that if the dealer wanted to sell it without having the finish redone, it would have to first have it's price dropped quite a bit for someone to bite.
Again, the paint issue wouldn't hurt the car's performance, but much of the car's price tag is also because if it's appearance, and if that is screwy on it, it's value takes a big hit.

Now, if a guy wanted a Trail Master for use only, and absolutely gave not one care about how the knife looked, he would likely bite on one that may have some cosmetic issues, but with a good cost savings discount thrown in to the deal.
He would obviously know that part of the selling price was because of an expected appearance, and if that look ain't there, then neither should the extra pricing for that feature

Or maybe beef up the QC Dept. lol.