Is the Customer Always Right?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

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Oct 28, 2006
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"The Customer is Always Right" is a phrase that most folks are familiar and agree with.
However does it apply to custom knives, particularly concerning custom orders?

Say for example a collector orders a knife from a maker and specifies a material, feature and/or embellishment that the maker feels does not support the particular design or may even look ridiculous, is it acceptable for or should the maker refuse to honor the customer's request?

This is not limited to custom knives but could apply to art, photography or anything where a maker/artist identifies an object for ever with his name/mark?

In addition, how do you feel about some maker's policy of not accepting customer input at all? More specifically, the maker will make a particular style of knife for a collector, however the features, materials, embellishments etc. are completely up to the maker?

As always, thank you in advance for your participation, comments and sharing of your knowledge.
 
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I think if the maker is asked to do something he is not comfortable with, he should refuse politely and suggest something else. Of course if the maker is making knives for a living (full time) it will be hard to refuse business. But still - it's his reputation on the line.

Kind regards,

Jos
 
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I agree with Jos. If I don't feel comfortable doing something I would rather not do it. Each knife represents you and your work, and someday that knife may come up for sale or change hands and might make people scratch their heads as to what you were thinking.
 
another slippery slope. Personally i think if a customer wants me to add or change something on a knife i worked hard at designing and making and it looks ok to ME, then i'll do it. If it looks silly to ME then i will politely refuse. I dont accept orders, i just make em when i feel the itch to grind so its easy for me to refuse an offer. might be different for full time makers though.
 
This one is going to be interesting.......

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
As a maker of "using" knives I try to work with my customers on knife design and materials. If I don't feel comfortable with the design or materials or what they're asking is a skill set I don't have (and they don't have time for me learn ;) ) I'll suggest a few makers to them.
 
The customer is not always right...

But sometimes the maker is very wrong!

Maker and customer must work together....This is most important.......
 
RobertJ said:
another slippery slope. Personally i think if a customer wants me to add or change something on a knife i worked hard at designing and making and it looks ok to ME, then i'll do it. If it looks silly to ME then i will politely refuse. I dont accept orders, i just make em when i feel the itch to grind so its easy for me to refuse an offer. might be different for full time makers though.
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I agree Robert, slippery slope in deed.
A maker has to protect his image and designs as a maker.
However, I believe the communication between maker and customer is key here as this interaction could either leave the maker with a cancelled order and angry customer or it could help in building a stronger relationship with the customer.

IMO, its part of the custom order process and good customer service in general for the maker to council the collector on the knife that’s being made.
 
Don Hanson III said:
The customer is not always right...

But sometimes the maker is very wrong!

Maker and customer must work together....This is most important.......
Click to expand...

Don, you are man of a few words, however you always make those words count. ;) :thumbup:

Very true and well said.
 
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The customer is not always right. While we all want to do our best to please our customers, and accommodate their wishes, most of us have learned over time what works, and what does not. In the past I have had a number of requests that I knew simply would not work. In those instances I try to be as polite as possible, explaining why I feel that way, and suggesting alternatives. For the most part it has worked well. It is definitely a give and take situation.

Generally, requests that involve questionable aspects tend to come from someone who does not have a great deal of experience with custom knives. And more times than not they are glad that the maker took the time to offer an explanation, and offer alternatives that would work/feel/look better.

Lets face it, the Maker is the expert as far as knowing what methods, materials, and designs will work. Trying to force him/her into territory beyond those parameters is asking for difficulties. Very likely the client will not be pleased with the end product, and the maker will likely be stuck with a knife that is not readily resaleable. Thats not to say that a maker should not "stretch" their abilities, but rather stay true to their knowledge and common sense.
 
I don't see much controversy here. I can't recall a situation where any maker has been forced to make a knife he didn't want to make by a collector. It is ALWAYS up to a maker to choose whether or not to accept a custom order. And it always has been.

I personally would not choose to make a knife that I considered inconsistent with my perceptions of good aesthetic design, ergonomics or functionality. But neither would I condemn a maker that chose to do so. I don't have to feed and clothe my family with the proceeds of my knifemaking and would not presume to judge the choices of those so situated. It's not a question of who is right, so much as a question of whether maker or colletor come to a mutual agreement on what is to be made. If they do, it really doesn't fall to anyone outside of that agreement to pass judgment.

Roger
 
I do not believe that the customer is always right. Most people are not knowledgable about art, craftsmanship, nor have good taste.
 
Kevin Jones said:
"The Customer is Always Right" is a phrase that most folks are familiar and agree with.
However does it apply to custom knives, particularly concerning custom orders?

This phrase is genuine and works at the highest levels of retail. But that's not what you pointed to, so no, they aren't.

This is not limited to custom knives but could apply to art, photography or anything where a maker identifies an object for ever with his name/mark?

No strict answer from me, but even I have requests for displays that I would not have chosen, but am willing to give it a try. Not every 'artist' pumps out great work each and every time.

In addition, how do you feel about some maker's policy of not accepting customer input at all? More specifically, the maker will make a particular style of knife for a collector, however the features, materials, embellishments etc. are completely up to the maker?

Yup. That sounds like a smart plan for someone established (read: experienced).

As always, thank you in advance for your participation, comments and sharing of your knowledge.
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As well as your provocative questions!

The photo below is of one of THE most successful retail food stores in America. It's a 6000lb granite block at the entrance to his store. It reads:

Rule #1 - The Customer is always right.
Rule #2 - If the Customer is wrong, reread rule #1.

stew_jr_w_rock.jpg

Read more about his phenomenon.

Coop
 
If the result will be a knife that we would place our name on and take to a knife show or put on our available page, we will work with the customer. If it is something that we would not want to try to sell or we think it might be difficult to sell if the customer backs out, then we won't. In the end it is our name that will be on that knife for a long time and we have to be satiafied with everything about the knife. I think that most of the customers we have dealt with over the years have looked at our knives and decided that they like our style. They don't usually suggest something that is not a fit with what we already make.

We had a good customer (that always makes it harder) that had a design that he had come up with that looked good and would be great with a few changes. We suggested making the changes and he balked at making them. So we made a couple of test knives out of scrap wood and iron and showed him what we were talking about. He had no problem then; he could feel the difference between his design and the change we were suggesting. It still looked like his knife design and most people could not tell the difference just looking at the two. Sometimes, like Don said, it is important to work together.
 
RogerP said:
I don't see much controversy here. I can't recall a situation where any maker has been forced to make a knife he didn't want to make by a collector. It is ALWAYS up to a maker to choose whether or not to accept a custom order. And it always has been.

I personally would not choose to make a knife that I considered inconsistent with my perceptions of good aesthetic design, ergonomics or functionality. But neither would I condemn a maker that chose to do so. I don't have to feed and clothe my family with the proceeds of my knifemaking and would not presume to judge the choices of those so situated. It's not a question of who is right, so much as a question of whether maker or colletor come to a mutual agreement on what is to be made. If they do, it really doesn't fall to anyone outside of that agreement to pass judgment.

Roger
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I don't think we are addressing anyone forcing anyone to do anything here. :confused:
 
I like it best when the customer tells me what style, size, materials and steels to use and turns me loose within a price range naturally but sometimes they also want things that are not yet in my skill level and thats when we need to really talk. Emblellishments are usually out of my hands and I rely heavy on somebody else to do them. If I cant do something I will find somebody that can but its hard to turn down work and just suggest another maker. I would rather collaborate with somebody than lose the order.
If they simply want something that I would not be proud to make I politely tell them so and try to sell them on my own ideas until we are both happy.
 
Under no circumstances do I think a maker should do something he/she isn't comfortable with. It's not worth it. What if things don't turn out right? Does the maker keep trying until he gets it right? What if, when all is said and done, the customer ends up unhappy with the way the knife looks? The maker could be opening up Pandora's Box by accepting an order for a knife that goes outside their comfort zone.

If a maker tells me that he/she is uncomfortable making what I am looking for, I don't feel insulted or slighted. I then decide whether I want to change the knife to one that the maker is comfortable with, or look for another maker. That last scenario is one that causes some makers to take the chance. They don't want to turn away business.

Another problem that arises from this type of situation is that there are some personalities that would take the refusal by the maker as an insult. Makers are better off not dealing with people like that, but that may lead to the person badmouthing the maker.

Yep, it's a slippery slope alright. The huge majority of people would understand and accept a maker's polite refusal to make a design they aren't comfortable with, but it's that small percentage that wouldn't take it well that create anxiety.
 
The custom knifemakers I enjoy working with are craftsmen, designers, artists, and materials experts. I have no desire to work with anyone who operates like a CNC machine, taking my inputs and spitting out a product because it was my request.

I look to leverage their hard earned knowledge and this interaction is a joyful part of the the experience. It starts with the maker accepting the order (initial request with ideas), moves through the thought partnering of design, proceeds through "the making of", I receive the final product and provide feedback/celebrate. Endorphines flow through each step for me.

My expectation is that if a particular request is "not the right thing to do" the maker has the courage to communicate that to a customer without offending or alienating (it's not what you say, but how you say it).

In dealing with unreasonable or irrational customers makers must consider the concept of protecting your "brand" while considering customer requests.

Having worked in the "people" arena for 30 years I speak from experience and by no means minimize the sensitivity to the idea of "firing the customer" but sometimes it's the right thing to do. Obviously it must be done with finesse.

Lastly, it makes sense for the customer to know what makers specialize in and request accordingly. The most fun for me is when I can stretch a maker with a new idea or different approach and have them thank me for the creative exercise!
 
This is a most insightful posting, which I am unable to word any better myself. I've edited slightly, hope you don't mind, Roger.


RogerP said:
It is ALWAYS up to a maker to choose whether or not to accept a custom order. And it always has been.

I personally would not choose to make a knife that I considered inconsistent with my perceptions of good aesthetic design, ergonomics or functionality. But neither would I condemn a maker that chose to do so. I don't have to feed and clothe my family with the proceeds of my knifemaking and would not presume to judge the choices of those so situated. It's not a question of who is right, so much as a question of whether maker or colletor come to a mutual agreement on what is to be made. If they do, it really doesn't fall to anyone outside of that agreement to pass judgment.

Roger
Click to expand...

There ought to be some dialog pertaining to what people feel that the actual meaning of 'the customer is always right' is for them.
 
Well, you have to look at it like this.
1. Are you willing to make concessions to appease your customer?
2. Is something that looks silly with your name on it as the maker worth it to you?

I look at it like this, this is your artwork, he/she is buying you and not them. If they don't like your design then maybe they should learn to make knives themselves.
 
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