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Is the Customer Always Right?
- Thread starter Kevin Jones
- Start date
I think the customer is always right when it comes to service and the way they want to be treated. Some of the other aspects of knives like design, no. But an open discussion with your customers about posabilities and running ideas back and forth between maker and customer can be a lot of fun and usually both parties will benafit from it.
chad
chad
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- Jan 28, 2000
- Messages
- 155
I like having the customers input.
I've had great ideas come about through my interaction with my customers. They sometimes take me in a whole new direction that I hadn't thought of and have given me projects that have really tested my abilities and given me confidence that I may not have had otherwise.
I've had ocassions where the customer and I have disagreed on some detail but so far we've always worked through it and found solutions. Understanding that I'm the Artist but they are the one paying good money for it.
Jon Christensen MS
I've had great ideas come about through my interaction with my customers. They sometimes take me in a whole new direction that I hadn't thought of and have given me projects that have really tested my abilities and given me confidence that I may not have had otherwise.
I've had ocassions where the customer and I have disagreed on some detail but so far we've always worked through it and found solutions. Understanding that I'm the Artist but they are the one paying good money for it.
Jon Christensen MS
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- Feb 28, 2002
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- 13,348
I don't think we are addressing anyone forcing anyone to do anything here.
A swing and a miss! Of my point, that is.
Roger
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2006
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- 361
Your first question seems to be well answered and I agree with most people. While "The Customer is Always Right" is a nice mantra that creates a warm fuzzy for the customer, no one is always right. As has been said, the best thing is for the maker and customer to reach an agreement through open communication. If one or the other party can't do that, it probably wasn't a good match for them to be working on a project together.
To the second question, I have heard of very few makers that do this. Few are popular enough (AND take orders) such that they can enforce an I-take-no-input polity. For those that do, if they are up front about it and allow for the customer to refuse the order without recourse, I see no major problems with doing this. While some issues may arise (e.g. If the customer doesn't take the knife, do they remain in the queue for the next knife?), those are workable and would allow a maker popular enough to stay afloat.
Nick
To the second question, I have heard of very few makers that do this. Few are popular enough (AND take orders) such that they can enforce an I-take-no-input polity. For those that do, if they are up front about it and allow for the customer to refuse the order without recourse, I see no major problems with doing this. While some issues may arise (e.g. If the customer doesn't take the knife, do they remain in the queue for the next knife?), those are workable and would allow a maker popular enough to stay afloat.
Nick
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here is something interesting "if you get good enough at whatever it is you do then customer service isn't as important."
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IMO, the best knifemaker in the world will not reach his/her full potential unless he/her takes care of their customers.
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IMO, Jon you have the attitude of a successful knifemaker and businessman.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
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- 218
Communication is definitely the key. My opinion is that collecting knives (for whatever reason) should be as enjoyable an experience as it is for me to make a knife. If my customer is not happy, then it is my job to make every effort to make him or her happy. After all it is their money.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
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- 324
I've always viewed the "customer is always right" as a laughable business canard. Retailers are under no illusion that 5% of their customer are not only not right they are wretched sociopaths. The Camelot sloganeering is simply a retail strategy that is willing to endure (with gnashed teeth and bitten tongue) pandering to the despicables to build a maximum base of solid customers. For example, I bought a used but rather rare Leupold rifle scope many years ago at a gun show that proved to be faulty. After many years of off/on frustrations, I sent the scope back to Leupold for testing unaware of the lifetime guarantee. Within a week I had a brand new scope in my hands without even a cover letter. Stunning ... they lost on this particular scope, but they gained a lifelong customer as well as retaining the unscrupulous erstwhile owner who ripped me off.
On the flip side we've all have dealt with the retailer who followed the "customer is always suspect" model much to our chagrin. I've been dealing with retailer who makes about the best wool hunting clothing money can buy. I knew going in his customer service could be "erratic", but was willing to gamble. I ordered a "seconds" jacket (color inconsistencies in the camo pattern) befitting a poor man's price reduction. He sent me a full retail jacket instead. I like it so much, however, that I was willing to "work with him" while ordering a couple of more items. But he's holed up in his bunker now, refusing phone calls and emails. He's been in business a long time, but he's lost me.
I love being part of the design process--mostly just tweaks that I've seen on other custom designs. My meager number of custom knives would make most of you blush, but I've already had one distasteful experience. The maker was very open to my input in designing a ultra-lite backback knife. He sent some drawings and I countered with some of my own. He not only agreed to my design, he was enthusiastic about it best I could tell. In his letter accompanying the completed knife he stated that he could not do the curved rib (intersecting corners in a skeletal handle) in my design with his new milling machine. I like the knife too much to invoke my "customer is always right" privilege, but I can't pick it up without consternation about what could have been. He should have notified me before changing my simple design. Even though I was "dollar conscience", I would have paid extra for the trivial amount of file work needed to do the 2 tight, curved corners (2) in my design.
A slippery slope is not mandatory; reasonable men come together or part amicably. The slope gets slippery when one of the parties (or both) on either side of the street, is unreasonable. Of course, the very definition of reasonableness is slippery. My ex-mother-in-law's customer reasonableness is one reason I'm not in retail, and why my going after her with a crowbar would be entirely reasonable.
ken
On the flip side we've all have dealt with the retailer who followed the "customer is always suspect" model much to our chagrin. I've been dealing with retailer who makes about the best wool hunting clothing money can buy. I knew going in his customer service could be "erratic", but was willing to gamble. I ordered a "seconds" jacket (color inconsistencies in the camo pattern) befitting a poor man's price reduction. He sent me a full retail jacket instead. I like it so much, however, that I was willing to "work with him" while ordering a couple of more items. But he's holed up in his bunker now, refusing phone calls and emails. He's been in business a long time, but he's lost me.
I love being part of the design process--mostly just tweaks that I've seen on other custom designs. My meager number of custom knives would make most of you blush, but I've already had one distasteful experience. The maker was very open to my input in designing a ultra-lite backback knife. He sent some drawings and I countered with some of my own. He not only agreed to my design, he was enthusiastic about it best I could tell. In his letter accompanying the completed knife he stated that he could not do the curved rib (intersecting corners in a skeletal handle) in my design with his new milling machine. I like the knife too much to invoke my "customer is always right" privilege, but I can't pick it up without consternation about what could have been. He should have notified me before changing my simple design. Even though I was "dollar conscience", I would have paid extra for the trivial amount of file work needed to do the 2 tight, curved corners (2) in my design.
A slippery slope is not mandatory; reasonable men come together or part amicably. The slope gets slippery when one of the parties (or both) on either side of the street, is unreasonable. Of course, the very definition of reasonableness is slippery. My ex-mother-in-law's customer reasonableness is one reason I'm not in retail, and why my going after her with a crowbar would be entirely reasonable.
ken
sheathmaker
Custom Leather Sheaths
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The customer is always right is, in fact, a retail based slogan.....but in our business the customer THINKS he or she knows what they want, many times has no idea it is impossible or at the very least impractical. None the less they believe they are right unitl they are convinced through dialog that an alternative would best suit them.
My personal take on this is simply, if there is any way in the world to accomplish what my customer wants...and at the same time NOT compromise my standards for what the item should turn out to be both funtionally and asthetically.
I just finished a commission and I was able to address six points my customer wanted, but I had to make a second attempt in order to meet those goals AND my personal standards. I would have ordinarily put the example knife pictured below in a blade sheath, and I did and I was not pleased with the outcome because of an ugly looking belt loop attachment so in the trash with it and then came a new design and plan B. My customer is pleased with plan B, having never seen the original. As far as I'm concerned out came out win-win.
Paul
My personal take on this is simply, if there is any way in the world to accomplish what my customer wants...and at the same time NOT compromise my standards for what the item should turn out to be both funtionally and asthetically.
I just finished a commission and I was able to address six points my customer wanted, but I had to make a second attempt in order to meet those goals AND my personal standards. I would have ordinarily put the example knife pictured below in a blade sheath, and I did and I was not pleased with the outcome because of an ugly looking belt loop attachment so in the trash with it and then came a new design and plan B. My customer is pleased with plan B, having never seen the original. As far as I'm concerned out came out win-win.
Paul
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
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- 27,877
like the bible, 'the customer is always right' is open to interpretation. Not that I'm trying to liken this statement to the bible, however in our consumer culture that might be a good fit
For a retailer/merchant, this slogan can be used in all sorts of ways, in many different situations. The average consumer takes this slogan literally more often than not, and perhaps would use it in order to gain some entitlement. Which they likely deserve- as a customer if nothing else.
What I take it to mean is that, without a customer there is no merchant. A customer is 'right' for a merchant and in fact fulfils at least half the equation- though sometimes more, sometimes less. It doesn't mean, to me, that a customer is right about the facts as they see them, but that also doesn't mean that I have to argue their grasp of the facts with them. It does mean that I have to lay out the facts as I see them, and once the customer accepts and adopts this newfound information, they can make an informed choice, that is as 'right' for them as possible. If their choice is to buy from me, then they've made the right choice. Customers HAVE to be right, and if they're not customers, then it hardly matters in any event who was right and who was wrong.
This conversation is not black and white, and as many have pointed out, there will always be diversity when dealing with people. The savvy business person accepts this and attempts to enable his/her customers to feel that they are 'right' in their decision to buy whatever it is they're buying, as opposed to deciding not to buy at all. To a business person, a customer that is proved wrong is one that is not, in fact, a customer, but a wasted opportunity or simply not in the market for what the seller has to offer.
For a retailer/merchant, this slogan can be used in all sorts of ways, in many different situations. The average consumer takes this slogan literally more often than not, and perhaps would use it in order to gain some entitlement. Which they likely deserve- as a customer if nothing else.
What I take it to mean is that, without a customer there is no merchant. A customer is 'right' for a merchant and in fact fulfils at least half the equation- though sometimes more, sometimes less. It doesn't mean, to me, that a customer is right about the facts as they see them, but that also doesn't mean that I have to argue their grasp of the facts with them. It does mean that I have to lay out the facts as I see them, and once the customer accepts and adopts this newfound information, they can make an informed choice, that is as 'right' for them as possible. If their choice is to buy from me, then they've made the right choice. Customers HAVE to be right, and if they're not customers, then it hardly matters in any event who was right and who was wrong.
This conversation is not black and white, and as many have pointed out, there will always be diversity when dealing with people. The savvy business person accepts this and attempts to enable his/her customers to feel that they are 'right' in their decision to buy whatever it is they're buying, as opposed to deciding not to buy at all. To a business person, a customer that is proved wrong is one that is not, in fact, a customer, but a wasted opportunity or simply not in the market for what the seller has to offer.
annr
Basic Member
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- Nov 15, 2006
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- 9,819
I, the customer, was right just this past week and could prove it with a micrometer and thickness gauge. Material that was to measure 0.82mm with a diameter of 10.50-11.0mm was neither, and not even close.
I had shopped for a person who could do this job and he assured me that he could meet my specs, specs not out of line with industry standard. Of 2-3 dozen pieces there was not ONE piece that met the specs. I was pissed that I wasted my time performing measurements and had to delay my production.
The guy never apologized. He never thanked me for letting him know that his machines were out of whack; he checked and got the same measurements I did. He only begrudingly offered my money back after I insisted on returning the product to him. I don't know if I will accept the refund--he was such a turkey.
Much of the time it is difficult to prove a 'fault' with something objective like numbers. But I want to add that when the customer is right, an apology is a good thing and maybe some minor compensation for doing his job!!
I had shopped for a person who could do this job and he assured me that he could meet my specs, specs not out of line with industry standard. Of 2-3 dozen pieces there was not ONE piece that met the specs. I was pissed that I wasted my time performing measurements and had to delay my production.
The guy never apologized. He never thanked me for letting him know that his machines were out of whack; he checked and got the same measurements I did. He only begrudingly offered my money back after I insisted on returning the product to him. I don't know if I will accept the refund--he was such a turkey.
Much of the time it is difficult to prove a 'fault' with something objective like numbers. But I want to add that when the customer is right, an apology is a good thing and maybe some minor compensation for doing his job!!
Good thread. I like working with makers that will build a knife that I have a dream of. Yet most times that we start the a project the communication between myself and the maker often makes the project into something a little different than was first thought of. Everytime the knife has turned out better and the whole process was fun and rewarding. Being open and willing is very important.
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Sometimes you get lucky. HERE is a thread I posted about the "Customer is always right - Most of the time". At the time, I just didn't feel right about his idea of a "short blade" with such an "over-grown" handle. I almost told him that I couldn't meet his specs., however, I decided to make the knife, and he was satisfied. It doesn't work that way every time.
Making a knife is one of the last few business endeavours in which a maker can actually choose to say..... "No Knife for You" (Sorta like a "Soup-Nazi")
Robert
Making a knife is one of the last few business endeavours in which a maker can actually choose to say..... "No Knife for You"
(Sorta like a "Soup-Nazi") Robert
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I have heard of one maker who will not put his mark on a blade when it comes to some situations of the customer's designs. Nothing outlandish, just historically accurate versus modern views on construction.
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David, the thread topic revolves around customer service.
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As well as your provocative questions!
The photo below is of one of THE most successful retail food stores in America. It's a 6000lb granite block at the entrance to his store. It reads:
Rule #1 - The Customer is always right.
Rule #2 - If the Customer is wrong, reread rule #1.
Read more about his phenomenon.
Coop
I used to really enjoy shopping at Stew Leonards when I lived in CT.