Is the lock in folders that big a deal?

C

Chariot

Joined
Jul 9, 2000
Messages
173
Being new to knives, I see a lot about the different locks, axis, liner locks, rolling locks, is this really that big a deal? how many of you have experienced the lock breaking down? and what would it take? if i buy a knife for self-defense (something that i might never, ever use...) or just use it around the house every once in a while... why would I need a axis lock? or a rekat pioneer ii "that holds well over a thousand pounds right at the pivot where you need it!" ... when, if ever, would i put the knife through a situation like that.. i can't see it happening, maybe im missing something here...! something i DO see though is the change of price, put a fancy lock on the knife and it's always $100 or more...
 
Well, I have had a liner-lock fail. That wouldn't stop me from buying a liner-lock knife if I liked the design; I would just take into account that the lock isn't quite as strong as some others. Personally, I really like the Axis lock just as far as general use goes (ambidextrous, like me
smile.gif
).

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Lock strength for me is not very imporatant at all. After a certain point it just does not matter. How many liner locks have you heard of that whose lock was stressed so much that it's liner bent? In what way was that knife used that could have caused that liner to bend? I really cannot think of a situation where that would happen.
Lock reliability on the other hand is of the utmost importance. Would you stab into something with an unreliable liner lock?
 
IMHO, unless you plan on stabbing with your knife, then it really doesn't even need a lock. Most cuting(I think ALL cuting, but I could be wrong)puts pressure in the opening direction of the blade, not the closing direction.

I think a strong, reliable lock is needed in a combat knife. Between the possible need for powerful stabs, and who knows what else, it is a MUST.

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"
 
For me it is an issue. I have had a liner lock fail, but not by the liners bending, not even close. The lock failed with about the same amount of force it takes to close a non locking folder. The result, stitches and a useless hand for a month. Don't think this was a cheap knife either. It was 200.00 and a very well known brand. After that I tested about 15 other linerlocks I owned and about half failed. I want a knife I can use without fear of it cutting me and I just don't trust linerlocks. Later, Jeff
 
A lock on a folder is like a safety on a firearm. If you rely on it; its only a matter of time before it will fail.

Folders fold. You shouldn't be loading this much stress on the folder and none of it should be along the back of the blade. Either take it easy or go with a fixed blade (better tool for the job).
 
I can't say I have had a Linelock fail, but I did have a Lockback pop shut because of lint in the locking notch. I have seen linerlocks that I own flex when I applied pressure to the spine. I don't find this very reassuring. Now I own a Rolling Lock and it is rock solid. Do I really need a Rolling Lock or Axis Lock(Handled a couple and I really like them.) probably not. What I need is "piece of mind" and the Rolling Lock does that for me. I doubt I'll ever buy a linerlock again, I really like the secure feeling I get from the Rolling Lock. Ultimately, you get what you are comfortable with and suits your needs.
 
"Is the lock in folders that big a deal?".

...How much are your fingers worth to you?

I would say that locks in folders are a VERY big deal. You NEVER know just when you might stab at something, without even thinking about it, and it sure is nice not to have to pack your chopped-off fingers to the surgeon for reattachment.

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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
 
Easyrider: What Rolling Locks do you have? What is available in that lock type?

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 07-23-2000).]
 
I know a couple of riggers who have very nasty scars from using the Case folders without a lock and had the blade close on their fingers while rigging shipboard items for movement. If you are working in close quarters then it is easy to catch the tip of your knive while working. I would not have a large folder without a lock of some kind.
Originally posted by Chariot:
Being new to knives, I see a lot about the different locks, axis, liner locks, rolling locks, is this really that big a deal? how many of you have experienced the lock breaking down? and what would it take? if i buy a knife for self-defense (something that i might never, ever use...) or just use it around the house every once in a while... why would I need a axis lock? or a rekat pioneer ii "that holds well over a thousand pounds right at the pivot where you need it!" ... when, if ever, would i put the knife through a situation like that.. i can't see it happening, maybe im missing something here...! something i DO see though is the change of price, put a fancy lock on the knife and it's always $100 or more...
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Ron
 
I must agree. When I was A kid I loved knives as much as now. All I could afford was pakistan lockbacks and hollow handled survival knives. I abused the heck out of them though and I never had any problems.Just look at the old Buck 110 lockback. Everyone has owned/owns one. You never hear anything bad about it. I think it boils down to: something new = "need" it.
This is just my opinion. B

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http://b.teel.tripod.com/paranormal
AKTI# A000991
 
The knives I own run the gamut...slipjoint, lockback, liner lock, framelock, Axis lock.

For just simple, straight cutting, I used non-locking slipjoints for years w/out problem. That's because I never stabbed or twisted with the blades, only standard cutting.

As far as locks, reliability is indeed a big deal, esp. on a harder-use knife. For that, out of my knives, the Axis may be the most reliable, not to mention most wear-resistant. This translates to longer-lasting, and therefore a slightly higher cost.

There are liner lock folders out there that are far more expensive than any Axis lock model.

But as mentioned in a previous post, how much are your fingers worth? A knife is replaceable, fingers are not. Any type of knife, locking or slipjoint, if of good quality and used for what it was intended can be good; just don't treat any folding knife as you would a fixed blade.
Jim
 
Nimrod, I currently only have the Carnivore.
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I looked very hard at the Pioneer II, but decided I liked the handle shape better on the big carny. I'm considering picking up the Carnivore Cub in D-2
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steel when they change over later this year since I like my Carnivore's handle shape soooooo much.
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It looks like the guys at REKAT shaved some of the handle off the front and rear, leaving the center portion untouched. This should make it feel just like my big Carnivore, but allow easier carry into places that require a smaller blade. The Sifu is just too large to carry for me.
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Bob Taylor over at REKAT has hinted about a replacement for the Pioneer II
called the Savant. What model were you looking for?
 
I think that about every folder should have a lock, it's just plain safer.
I also think that about all the major makers (Buck, Schrade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Case, ect) have fine reliable locks that stand up great to regular use.
In 99.9% of all cases, if your locking mechanism fails on a quality knife it was either a weird fluke or you were abusing the knife.
Plastic handles bother me alittle because I can imagine the handle breaking before the metal parts of the lock would break (still, I own several plastic-synthetic handled knives).

[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 07-24-2000).]
 
Just remember, nothing has to break for a linerlock to fail. All it takes for some of them is a VERY, VERY, slight pressure on the back of the blade to move the linerlock to the side, allowing the blade to snap shut with great force. I wouldn't have belived it either if it didn't happen to me. When my knife failed it wasn't a fluke and I wasn't mistreating it. All I did was set the knife down on a tile counter top and the back of the blade BARELY tapped the tile. The thing snapped shut on me and it was all over. If it had no lock at all I would not have got cut. I later tested three of the same model and all failed in a simular manner. Later, Jeff
 
A linerlock can fail, sure, but so can other locks. Linerlock are just very sensitive to the way they were manufactered. The angle were the liner touches the blade must be excactly good, or else a total lockup which you can't close or in the other case a bad linerlock which closes when pressure put on.

If you all have failing liner-locks, try an AFCK from benchmade. Or a mono-lock pinnacle. Basically also a linerlock. I've had an old Buck 110 getting play on the lock, and now can be unlocked by pushing the back of the blade.

Plastic handles....I know they look like cheap plastic, but try to cut a slice off with a knife. You will feel, if it's zytel, the fiberglass stopping your cut. Real zytel is very wear-resistant and lightweight. The zytel handles spyderco uses last a lifetime.
They are stronger than wood or any other natural material. Only G-10, titanium and good grades off aluminium beat it.

greetz, Bart.
 
thanks for the replies, my point was that sometimes all the companies talk about the locks are exaggerated... and ultimately all locks can or will fail.. how much i value my fingers? i would say dont use a knife at all and put your hands in your pockets at all times if that's an issue...

but for a more precise question:

im considering buying a kershaw whirlwind or black out knife, it's got the speed safe and i think a liner lock and it's about $60
should i buy it... or would i be better of paying nearly twice that much money for a bm 710 with an axis lock?

also you guys that use your knives for stabbing, when do you stab with a knife? only time i can think of using a folder for stabbing is self-defense... i doubt it will break for that...
 
I say you can't go wrong with the BM 710 Axis lock. A very reliable lock system, and the knife should last you a lifetime. BM does stand behind their work, so if you have any problems, they'll fix them. If you search the net, you'll be able to get the 710 for under 100 bucks easy. well worth the higher cost.
Good luck.

[This message has been edited by CODE 3 (edited 07-24-2000).]
 
I agree about the importance of locks, and share the fear if I ever use the knife for stabbing. But just for the record, at a picnic a couple of weeks ago we ended up without a mayonaise knife so we passed around my BM 910 (stryker). Everyone was careful but it was funny to watch them trying to spread mayo with this knife. At any rate, the last guy, a kayaker who did not know what a liner lock was, was trying to close the knife with so much force that his hands were shaking. I feel confident enough in a pinch that my 910 will hold. Incidentally, if you want something strictly for self-defense, a balisong is excellent. When it's open, it is essentially a fixed blade as long as you are holding the handles.
 
but all this fear about the knife lock wont hold if you stab someone is that realistic? can ANYONE mention when they used stabbing with a folder and it didnt hold for the pressure?
 
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