Is the ZDP Delica a limited run?

Walking Man

Walking Man

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I hope not, because I want one!
BTW.....
the only picture that I saw of this knife didn't show a weld line (where the two steels meet?) Any ideas why this is? (maybe it was a bad picture or a prototype or something? :confused: )
 
Limited run of 1200 pieces, only 600 of which have been released so far. No laminatione line, because it uses solid ZDP-189.
 
smcfalls13 said:
Limited run of 1200 pieces, only 600 of which have been released so far. No laminatione line, because it uses solid ZDP-189.
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Ok, that makes sense. I was wondering why I hadn't seen a lamination line on any of the pics. I wonder, though, how brittle solid ZDP-189 might be? The brittleness of the steel was the reason for using lamination, correct?
 
The question of "brittleness" of ZDP was born in the forums. There is no real experience that indicates brittleness. Certainly there was no indication in our testing.

The reason for laminating the ZDP has nothing to do with brittleness. The primary reasons for laminating ZDP is; 1) stamping and 2) cost.

The ZDP Delica with the blue handle has really attracted quite a bit of attention. We are considering future pieces, but probably with a different color handle. The demand is far too great for the quantity produced.

sal
 
Sal,

Have you set up your Charpy machine yet? I would be very interested in verifying the data sheet numbers for Spyderco's steels.
 
Every dealer that I have talked to has sold out of all of their product both current and future quantities.

I have had one on order since August 2005 and hope that it ships this week.

I think that the Sprint Run will totally evaporate within a very short time. The few that are on the street are already commanding inflated prices.
 
already commanding inflated prices.
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Yeah it's kind of funny. It's a nice little knife, but just because you take a 50 dollar knife and upgrade the steel, I'm not sure it's instantly worth 175+ more. I could understand if it was a ZDP military or manix a knife that was fairly expensive to begin with. Soon enough people will be wanting william henry prices for these knives it seems. Will be interesting to see what prices on these knives do once other companies start coming out with ZDP knives of their own.
 
beefangusbeef said:
Yeah it's kind of funny. It's a nice little knife, but just because you take a 50 dollar knife and upgrade the steel, I'm not sure it's instantly worth 175+ more. I could understand if it was a ZDP military or manix a knife that was fairly expensive to begin with. Soon enough people will be wanting william henry prices for these knives it seems. Will be interesting to see what prices on these knives do once other companies start coming out with ZDP knives of their own.
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Drop like a block of concrete ? :rolleyes:
 
"It's a nice little knife, but just because you take a 50 dollar knife and upgrade the steel, I'm not sure it's instantly worth 175+ more."

Couldn't agree more. It's still a delica. The performance difference in steel will probably not be noticable by 95% of the users. Plus, true knife knuts like to sharpen :) In addition, this steel has little history of its reliability, unlike VG10, so the prudent buyer, who wants a knife to use over the long haul, may want to wait a year or two. This wonder steel may go the way of CPM440V.
 
Daniel said:
Around $68.00
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That sounds like about the right number for it; up to about a hundred bucks maybe IMO.

But people are jumping all over Calypsos, Terzuolas, etc when one is for sale so who knows. The numbers people are paying are really striking.
 
Spyderco introduced CPM-440V to the mainstream market. Eventually it was replaced by CPM-S30V.

Spyderco indtroduced VG-10 into the mainstream market. It replaced Gingami-1 and ATS-55. As Brownshoe mentioned, it took a while for the reliability to be established. History is important.

It is a bit surprizing that the reaction is so drastic. I think one of the main diffrerences is that ZDP was given media attention prior to making it available on a lower cost knife, where as VG-10 and 440V were relatively unknown materials when introduced.

Spyderco is now introducing ZDP-189 to the mainstream market on relatively low cost models. What the future will bring we don't know. Perhaps it will become a regular steel material in the future and replace VG-10? Perhaps it will fade away?

The real information ultimately comes from you.

sal
 
FullerH said:
Hey, I really like CPM 440V!
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Fuller I like 440V also. But I don't know if you've noticed or not but 440V for some strange reason is about the most difficult blade steel to sharpen. That steel has an abrasion resistance that is beyond belief to me. I have a "trailing point" LIl Temperance made with 440V that I dearly love but sharpening it is a nightmare. It usually takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get it as sharp as I like. But it does hold an edge good after you get it sharp. You better have patience :D
 
orthogonal1 said:
That's an interesting prospect: ZDP-189 at VG-10 cost.
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I imagine to get to that point the mill is going to have to start running A LOT of ZDP-189. I'm not sure what the process is for producing ZDP-189 at the steel mill so it may never be able to be brought inline with VG-10 prices. If the steel prices in Japan are running along the same lines as the steel prices are at American steel mills, you won't see a significant drop in price of ZDP-189 anytime soon. American steel mills keep increasing prices and putting customers on allocation (limiting the amount of steel that a customer can purchase). And they would rather run the more basic grades of steel (think A36), not the high grades. Quicker rolls with good margins. It's a good time to be a steel mill in the US again.

I just recieved my ZDP Delica yesterday. Darn fine knife with a wicked sharp edge. I can't wait to give the steel a trial run this weekend. I have to get it out in the yard and the woods some.

It sure did a good job opening that frozen pizza box last night. And it didn't even lose it's edge. :D
 
Sal, other things like cost of belts, heat treatment and such make the better steel fall to the wayside. Benchmade with their M2 High Speed steel is an example. It was by far (IMO) the best steel Benchmade had to offer. They only offered it in a few of the most expensive in their line. The higher cost coupled with the lack of new models made it less of a desirable product as time went on. It's been replaced in the lineup by D2 ( easier to machine & heat treat and still pretty good)despite being the best steel in their line up. The M2 models are still very much sought after in e-bay with people still willing to pay the money for them.

I guess what I'm saying is that you do have a say in whether a steel will become popular or not. I'd bet that if a steel was too expensive, too difficult to machine and heat treat you can make it not successful by the way you support it, advertise it, assign it models etc. No matter how good it really is.

Have you tried the CPM125V's, the CPM M4's , RS2, Blue "super steel"'s etc? I'm just curious if you've eliminated most of these. I know I can't read a chart of ingrediants and know the whole story.

I also have a talonite knife. Expensive but worth it, but obviously only a sprint run. Thanks for listening, Joe L. Raleigh NC
 
Hi Joe,

You are correct in that processing costs are significantly magnified as the steel properties improve. (Cost of mfr).

The bottom line is the bottom line. If the company is willing to make lower margins in order to keep the better steel? In reality, the costs are high enough that sacrifices must be made at the bottom line in order to provde these materials.

Our CPM-125V shipment was flawed and went back to Crucible. They are currently testing and working with the material to be able to send the next shipment to us. It tested extremely well in abrasion resistance.

The CPM-150V (my fist choice) was too difficult to roll so it was dropped (at this time).

We are testing M4 with Ed Schempp's "Camp Knife". Very close to 3V. Ed prefer's 3V so that's what we're going with on both of his fixed blades. I've had many discussions with Scott Devanna, Warren Osbourne and Ed Schempp on the differences between M4 & 3V. I like them both.

We tested Hitachi's blue super steel in kitchen knives. very nice, but I prefer their ZDP.

We've not played with RS2.

Spyderco is willing to make lower margins to be able to provide the better materials primarily because of my interest in true high performance as opposed to high hype. I also know their are quite a few out there that also share the interest in pushing that envelope. That's why we like to proivde the exotic steels in a low cost format. (FRN handles, etc). that way everyone that wants to can "play" and we get "real world" feedback.

So we'll contantly reach for the stars (125V, ZDP, etc) in the "high-performance-matter-separators" while keeping our "standard" steels (VG-10, S30V) at a very high performance level. That is our niche.

I will say that it is more difficult to "make more money" with that approach, but for some, "making more money" is not the only part of this world of knives.

sal
 
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