Is there a real advantage to high end knives for fish fillet?

[David Mary]

Many years ago I asked a knifemaker to make me a fillet knife, he said he could, but he said "to be honest you can buy a Rapala as good as one that I would make". I appreciated his honesty.

Perhaps, but he also could have gone the route of not second guessing his potential customer's interest in a custom filet knife. I would hold him no less honest had he done so. I consider it basic knowledge that "cheap knives exist and actually cut things".

 

[SCTorrero]

I worked as a deck hand on a party boat, cutting 200 - 300 fish at a time, from small rock fish to larger pelagics or halibut. I used a Forschner 8" and 10" breaking knife, and have gone through a few. I'll post pics if any are interested. These are similar in style to the meatcrafter.

The knives were fine and did the job, but they needed regular honing and sharpening (including mid-session). Having a stainless super steel would have been nice, though obviously not necessary. Whether one filleting a pan fish or 5 once a week would need such an advantage is a separate question.

 

[SCTorrero]

 

[Velitrius]

Perhaps, but he also could have gone the route of not second guessing his potential customer's interest in a custom filet knife. I would hold him no less honest had he done so. I consider it basic knowledge that "cheap knives exist and actually cut things".

I don't know how many remember George Tichbourne on this forum, but he was a true gentleman and one heck of a knifemaker.

I have a buddy who's had a commercial fishing boat in Alaska for eons. He knew I was the "knife guy" so asked me if he could get a filet knife made someplace.

I remembered seeing a filet knife that George had made, so I reached out to him.

He replied that I could get a great filet knife off the shelf at Cabelas or such, but if I wanted to get my buddy a cool knife, he was enthusiastically in.

He had me measure Fish'n Buddy's hand, asked me questions about the fish he was gonna filet, how flexible he liked his blades... the whole nine yards. Then he got to work.

The piece was beautiful to behold, a dream to use, and a genuine honor for my friend to own. He still has it today and treasures it.

Was gonna get a custom one for my father-in-law for Christmas after that, but George sadly passed away before I could get back to him.

George was honest about performance of the off-the-shelf stuff, but didn't second guess my buddy's enthusiasm for a piece that would be uniquely his for life.

I sincerely honor him for that.

 

[David Mary]

That's fair Velitrius . Just about any style of knife can be found in the budget range. My point was simply that I don't see a need for any maker to tell every (or any!) person that comes to me for a custom that they can try WalMart first for a budget option. If they wanted a knife with the absolute best possible bang for their bucks in a cutting tool, they would not have contacted a custom maker in the first place. Kind of like if I owned a fine steakhouse (for example), I don't think I would be telling people as they walk through the door "But you know you can go to Whole Foods and make this yourself for a quarter the price?"

That being said, I know there have been times I have talked myself out of a job because I felt I could not accommodate the requested materials and/or design at a price range that I felt my work justified.

But yes, I guess since I have posted twice in this thread I should give my answer to the thread title.

"Is there a real advantage to high end knives for fish fillet?"

Absolutely.

1) Pride of ownership, which is very subjective and can be a real advantage to some, and to others not even a consideration.
2) Performance, which as has been discussed is either relevant or not depending on the nature and volume of the work.
3) Ergos and handling: I was asked to make a very specific design for T TDOG1 because in his broad fish processing experience, his favorite commercially available filet knives still left a little to be desired. He gave me instructions on what changes he wanted to an existing design, the Havalon Baracuta Z knife. We redesigned it as a fixed blade longer blade, shorter handle, and softer ergos. We made all these changes because despite this budget folding filet knife performing all the tasks he had ever asked of it, he knew exactly what design tweaks he wanted to make it "perfect" for him. The "Finesse Filet" was born.

 

[Velitrius]

That's fair Velitrius . Just about any style of knife can be found in the budget range. My point was simply that I don't see a need for any maker to tell every (or any!) person that comes to me for a custom that they can try WalMart first for a budget option. If they wanted a knife with the absolute best possible bang for their bucks in a cutting tool, they would not have contacted a custom maker in the first place. Kind of like if I owned a fine steakhouse (for example), I don't think I would be telling people as they walk through the door "But you know you can go to Whole Foods and make this yourself for a quarter the price?"

That being said, I know there have been times I have talked myself out of a job because I felt I could not accommodate the requested materials and/or design at a price range that I felt my work justified.

But yes, I guess since I have posted twice in this thread I should give my answer to the thread title.

"Is there a real advantage to high end knives for fish fillet?"

Absolutely.

1) Pride of ownership, which is very subjective and can be a real advantage to some, and to others not even a consideration.
2) Performance, which as has been discussed is either relevant or not depending on the nature and volume of the work.
3) Ergos and handling: I was asked to make a very specific design for T TDOG1 because in his broad fish processing experience, his favorite commercially available filet knives still left a little to be desired. He gave me instructions on what changes he wanted to an existing design, the Havalon Baracuta Z knife. We redesigned it as a fixed blade longer blade, shorter handle, and softer ergos. We made all these changes because despite this budget folding filet knife performing all the tasks he had ever asked of it, he knew exactly what design tweaks he wanted to make it "perfect" for him. The "Finesse Filet" was born.

I wholeheartedly agree.

My friend absolutely has great pride of ownership of his piece. The performance is superb, and since it was designed around his own hand,, ergos and handling are perfect.

I don't think George was trying to talk anyone out of the project at the time, I think he simply tossed that out there in case we weren't aware of the vast array of fishing knives that were already hanging on shelves or such. Once I gave him the nod, he was all in, knowing that the end user was going to have all of the advantages you mentioned there.

The steakhouse owner analogy is pretty darn funny though.

 

[Landshark99]

I worked as a deck hand on a party boat, cutting 200 - 300 fish at a time, from small rock fish to larger pelagics or halibut. I used a Forschner 8" and 10" breaking knife, and have gone through a few. I'll post pics if any are interested. These are similar in style to the meatcrafter.

The knives were fine and did the job, but they needed regular honing and sharpening (including mid-session). Having a stainless super steel would have been nice, though obviously not necessary. Whether one filleting a pan fish or 5 once a week would need such an advantage is a separate question.

I still have one of those sitting with my fishing gear, if my memory is correct, those used to be the knife of choice on the boats in so cal

 

[Chefget]

Many years ago I asked a knifemaker to make me a fillet knife, he said he could, but he said "to be honest you can buy a Rapala as good as one that I would make". I appreciated his honesty.

I did the same thing, different results


View attachment 1888134View attachment 1888135View attachment 1888136View attachment 1888138View attachment 1888137View attachment 1888139

Each is different, functions and feels different. Some times I used one for several months or a year, then switch off to a new or different one. Things I like and don't particularly care for in each.

Have to say the first one, made by our own G L Drew is probably my all time favorite

 

[Velitrius]

I did the same thing, different results


View attachment 1888134View attachment 1888135View attachment 1888136View attachment 1888138View attachment 1888137View attachment 1888139

Each is different, functions and feels different. Some times I used one for several months or a year, then switch off to a new or different one. Things I like and don't particularly care for in each.

Have to say the first one, made by our own G L Drew is probably my all time favorite

I just quoted this so that some folks could scroll down and be able to see this stuff twice....

Absolutely gorgeous.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

I have not found anything better than this old Gerber. It has serrated, crazy thin edge, rubber handle, and flexes just right. I don’t even know what steel it is, but this knife was made by someone that loved to catch and cook salmon. It is perfect but not pretty. I think it is a Fiskars but not sure. I don’t think a super steel could have enough flex?

If there is a custom maker that could duplicate the flex, salt and blood resistant steel, good edge holding and serrated edge (or convince me not needed?!) and slap an Osage or lignum vitae handle with this same shape and a nice sheath I would like to know about them………

 

[5DoorEstate]

YouTube has some fascinating videos of Taiwanese tuna knives. There’s one showing how an older guy made one that’s worth a watch.

 

[J. Doyle]

I have not found anything better than this old Gerber. It has serrated, crazy thin edge, rubber handle, and flexes just right. I don’t even know what steel it is, but this knife was made by someone that loved to catch and cook salmon. It is perfect but not pretty. I think it is a Fiskars but not sure. I don’t think a super steel could have enough flex?

If there is a custom maker that could duplicate the flex, salt and blood resistant steel, good edge holding and serrated edge (or convince me not needed?!) and slap an Osage or lignum vitae handle with this same shape and a nice sheath I would like to know about them………
View attachment 1888694View attachment 1888695

Your request should be pretty easy for most custom makers.

Any steel you wish could be used. Flex is entirely a function of geometry and nothing else. Hardness/tempering/heat treatment has nothing to do with flex.

 

[EngrSorenson]

I have not found anything better than this old Gerber. It has serrated, crazy thin edge, rubber handle, and flexes just right. I don’t even know what steel it is, but this knife was made by someone that loved to catch and cook salmon. It is perfect but not pretty. I think it is a Fiskars but not sure. I don’t think a super steel could have enough flex?

If there is a custom maker that could duplicate the flex, salt and blood resistant steel, good edge holding and serrated edge (or convince me not needed?!) and slap an Osage or lignum vitae handle with this same shape and a nice sheath I would like to know about them………
View attachment 1888694View attachment 1888695

I like this one because it looks like you turned a fillet knife into a stick.

 

[Arathol]

Hardness/tempering/heat treatment has nothing to do with flex.

I'm not so sure about that....I think that proper heat treat and tempering has everything to do with flexibility. A blade thats too hard will break if you bend it.

 

[whp]

You can erase the "for fish fillet part" lol.

Anyway, short answer is no. I've been on many fishing boats, trips, docks, piers, and I've only seen one person with a fancy fillet knife.

...me

I haven t read but a couple of posts past this one. But this is my feeling also. High end knives are about 90% marketing when compared with quality high value knives.

 

[Arathol]

I haven t read but a couple of posts past this one. But this is my feeling also. High end knives are about 90% marketing when compared with quality high value knives.

I see it as 50% marketing and 50% look at me.....

 

[J. Doyle]

I'm not so sure about that....I think that proper heat treat and tempering has everything to do with flexibility. A blade thats too hard will break if you bend it.

Heat treatment has nothing to do with flex. It affects what happens to the blade DURING/AFTER the flex. But the ability to flex is solely a function of geometry.

 

[Arathol]

But the ability to flex is solely s function of geometry.

Quench a blade and try to flex it without a proper heat treatment and see what happens......It will break like glass no matter the geometry.....

 

[J. Doyle]

Quench a blade and try to flex it without a proper heat treatment and see what happens......It will break like glass no matter the geometry.....

In your example here, take two pieces of quenched, hardened but NOT tempered steels. Identical steel, identical quench temp, identical hardness. Identical length and width. But one is 3/16" thick and one is 1/16" thick. Will they both break at the same point in a controlled arc/flex?

Believe what you wish. This topic has been covered ad nauseum in makers circles and on forums for years.

I have a fair bit of experience bending/breaking and heat treating blades.

 

[GatorFlash1]

I have used a Victorinox Swiss Army Filet Knife for many years. I like the feel and the flexibility.