Is there a special sharpening recipe for cleanly slicing napkins?

Wowbagger said:
Nothing like hogging the thread to death.

Hey guys I was noticing last night that my 15,000 Shapton Pro is pretty loaded up in the pores though the surface isn't all that black just lines here and there.
Can you provide a link to what to do about that.
I reread the info, just to be sure, not to use cleanser or soap on it.
Normally I would just lap it on my 330 or what ever grit DMT plate with the little round dots (holes) all over it. I am adverse to getting the Shapton lapping stuff just for this.

Generally I use a natural nagura stone on the sharpening stones 8000 and bellow but not so much on this 15,000


The instructions say to just keep it wet while I am using it. I admit to using it a bit dry for edge trailing so I can see when the edge is just getting down to the stone.

What is the best way to keep the fine grit characteristics but clean the pores ?
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Your Shapton stone should always look fresh and new before every sharpening. The Shapton stones are designed to be superior in flatness and because of the abrasive type and stone bond the surface needs to be textured properly. For these reasons its best to lap the stone before every use with a quality diamond plate. While your DMT Duosharp plate will work, the greater flatness of a Diasharp or Atoma plate would be recommended. I have the Shapton DGLP, its awesome but I don't think its $400 awesome, an Atoma 400 would easily take it's place if I couldn't find one on discount again.

The Nagura stone would be best used on natural stones of high hardness when trying to polish a large bevel but for normal sharpening the mud is useless. They do however work very well to clean the synthetic Shaptons and provide nice surface texture to the finer stones. I would always recommend flushing the stones after lapping/cleaning to ensure the best possible abrasive action and scratch pattern.
 
Atoma 400 . . .
and
The Nagura stone . . . work very well to clean the synthetic Shaptons and provide nice surface texture to the finer stones. I would always recommend flushing the stones after lapping/cleaning to ensure the best possible abrasive action and scratch pattern.
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Jason ,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH !

You've put me at ease. I was concerned the diamond plate would make the 15,000 more like a coarser stone. I am still a little confused when it comes to ceramic stones. I read or heard in a vid or two that some ceramic stones are the same except for the way the surface is prepared to make them medium or fine . . . that sort of thing and then I learned the hard Arkansas stones are similarly prepared.

I just didn't want to change the 15,000 too much by abrading it or adding anything to the pores that was more coarse than the stone (by adding the Nagura material ) even if it was just a hint here and there after rinsing it well.

Yes I only use my Nagura like an eraser to clean my stones then rinse the stones well before sharpening.

Thanks again
 
My opinion: It is a waste of time. If you want a blade that is good for slicing napkins, tissue, or toilet paper, then I guess that it makes sense.

Unfortunately, that type of edge is not going to last very long and is of limited value for any other task.
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OK, OK . . .

Picture this if you will indulge me for a minute . . . and I AM NOT SAYING NAPKIN SLICING IS IMPORTANT . . .

You walk into a bar.
You see your old pal and sit down and shoot the sheeet.

Whaaaaasup ?
Well I finally took your advice and bought a "real" knife.
Whatdya git ?
This (and he whips it out all proud like).
You ask did you sharpen it yet.
He says NO it's brand new why would I sharpen it ?
You say because knives don't generally come sharp from the factory.
He says is this one dull or sharp ?
You take it to a napkin and it just rolls the napkin up and finally tears it where you are holding it from trying to force the dull edge through the paper.

THEN . . . and here is the good bit . . . the whole reason for all this over the top Tom Foolery . . . the reason you carry this knife in your left pocket and never ever use it . . . for months or years . . . just for this moment . . .

So you take out your knife . . . the one in your left pocket . . . and you slice the napkin like you were slicing an apple with an air about it like ALL of your knives are ALWAYS like this sharp.

Well your friend goes home, tries to create an edge like that.
Can't.
Is blown away by your sharpening / knife prowess and you are a legend from that moment on.
End of story.

ALL from a little well timed napkin slicing.

Huh ? Huh ?
See ? :p :D :)
 
Something to look at and a reason for me to bang the table until Miso2 puts up the vid of tissue cutting with the lovely Spydy Chef . . . now you are making me want another knife. This is a dangerous thread for me but I am willing to continue if you are. :thumbup: :)

I pulled the silver SAK out of the man purse.
It had been sharpened before Christmas on the Edge Pro to 4000 edge trailing. I don’t remember using it since I sharpened it.
Man purse ? Well you know . . . just the essentials : CS Ti Lite VI Razel, Spyderco ultra fine sharpening rod, fork, comb, back up pens, emergency sharpening kit, ruler. . . . there’s a marlin spike in there, drawing implements of construction. Just the essentials.



I took a few more passes on the Shapton 15,000 stone with the red SAK edge leading to really feel the stone. Usually I “strop” with a few edge trailing but did not do that this time.

First I hair whittled with both knives. The Edge pro sharpened silver knife whittled a little easier and more controllably as if to say “What thickness curl do you want here ?“.
The hand sharpened red knife whittled but requited a little palm stropping like six strokes total to really get the edge to whittle on BOTH sides of the edge evenly and then it struggled here and there and was not as controllable as the Edge Pro sharpened edge even at only 4000.

Do you see why I prefer a . . .oh my gosh “jig sharpened” edge?
Interestingly enough the red knife still did better at the Puffs tissue slicing. See slit and knife on the left. That knife is shallower angle than the silver knife on the right by a degree or so per side.
Again . . . : the silver knife on the right was better at whittling but was sharpened on 40000 shapton edge pro where as the better slice was shallower and done on the Shapton 15,000 yet was less great at whittling hair.
:confused: I don't know . . . I'm just reporting the facts mam.



Now for the “practical” use of such an edge AND the edges were still able to whittle hair after such a grueling test of the edges (trimming finger nail).



I uploaded the above photo to photo bucket and then decided to go back and continue the same curl / cut trying for a longer cut so I continued cutting the same curl and went all the way across my nail to just before the curl would come off. Very controllable cutting . . . yes ? This wasn’t the entire width of my finger nail but that was definitely in the realm of possibility. Usually I just take a few millimeters of a curl and I can tell if the edge is “there” or not. Pretty much with the Edge Pro all I have to do is go through the motions . . . habit . . . of going from one stone to the next a few strokes [not twenty or fifty or a hundred per side like stropping] like six per stone for three or four stones and the edge . . . after the 40000 is ALWAYS as sharp as the little SAK as it came out of my bag today. What I am saying is : with hand sharpening I need the fingernail or tissue test. With the Edge Pro I don’t even need to test the edge to know when I am THERE.

Stil . . . I admit these edges could be better . . . NO DOUBT about that . . . but you asked for a formula and I didn't spend much time at all on either of these knives. I mean the passes on the 15,000 was just about six trips part way down the stone on each side total alternating. Super light pressure. (the edge was sharp already I just gave it a little Umph)



 
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I took and post a video on Youtube but somehow it is messed up during uploading. I will redo it sometime this week.....


Miso
 
I took and post a video on Youtube but somehow it is messed up during uploading. I will redo it sometime this week.....


Miso
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:thumbup:

Hey . . . I went to look to see if it was there and it was !
YouTube has been pretty . . . well lets say "Special" to work with this year.
I grabbed it and put it here in the chance that it will run.

If not I will delete it (I haven't watched it yet . . . here goes ).


[video=youtube;V2xqEbW28q0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xqEbW28q0[/video]

PS: Success ! ! !
Way to go !
You make it look effortless.

Oh . . . wait . . . now I know your secret . . . the the CRK blue cloth.
I bet you would tear the tissue without that . I should have known there was a "trick" this can't be done in REAL life. :D

PPS: I don't want to step on any toes. If you post it in your post I will delete it from mine.
 
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Standard copy paper is not a good test of a real sharp edge, that's why people mention phonebook paper. I find that the thin shiny advertising pages in the Sunday paper are a pretty good test too. It's not so much if the knife can slice it as if the knife can catch the edge at an angle and initiate a cut/
 
Wowbagger,

No problem with posting the video. Somehow it is cut in half in length during the processing......
Also, I did not have time to resharpen the knife for the test. Since it has been used for a month or so with several stropping, the edge might not represent what I described above and might have been little more refined.

Anyway, I will redo the test with a freshly sharpened knife sometime this week.



Miso
 
bdmicarta said:
Standard copy paper is not a good test of a real sharp edge, that's why people mention phonebook paper. I find that the thin shiny advertising pages in the Sunday paper are a pretty good test too. It's not so much if the knife can slice it as if the knife can catch the edge at an angle and initiate a cut/
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Newspaper is a harder test than phone book paper even though phonebook paper is a little thinner. Newspaper is more likely to tear when cutting cross grain if your knife is not sharp enough. The next level up is of course paper towels.
 
I am not sure if the OP is still interested in this, but I have done the retest with a freshly sharpened knife with my procedures. This time it is more like a slow push cutting of tissue paper.

[Youtube]6cs5e7sfThc[/Youtube]


Miso
 
miso2
I am not sure if the OP is still interested in this, but I have done the retest with a freshly sharpened knife with my procedures. This time it is more like a slow push cutting of tissue paper.
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Oh yah. That's the way it's done !

Now to clarify this is a bit toothy and stropped right ?.
or Was that the whole sheeebang with the sharpening films etc that you posted a link to ?

For the OP . . . just what is the formula here ?

PS: and I noticed there was no outside help from the CRK cloth, this time, :) to influence the outcome. This was just pure sharpening prowess folks.
 
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Wowbagger,


The edge is not too polished. But as bucketstove pointed out, some may consider it very polished.

The link I provided above leads you to the full procedure. But here is a brief version.
(1) Stones from #240 to #600 on Edge Pro Apex.
(2) Deburr with EP's #1,000 ceramic rod.
(3) Strop with 3 um Pikar (aluminum oxide) on a leather sheet.

I can get a refined edge on M390, ZDP-189, VG10, ATS34, CTS-XHP, LC200N and carbon steel with this. But on high vanadium carbide steels like S35VN and S110V, it gives me an edge which feels rougher and more toothy. Diamond pastes seems to refine it further, but I am still testing them.

Since you are mostly concerned with the CRK cloth, I tell you that I was holding it while shooting the video like Linus.



Miso
 
Since you are mostly concerned with the CRK cloth, I tell you that I was holding it while shooting the video like Linus.
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Perfectly understandable . . . I do that . . . just as long as it wasn't within the critical 201 mm aura of the Spydiechef. That's what I'm talking about. There was obviously no foul here.
 
Diamond pastes seems to refine it further, but I am still testing them.
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Please let us know when you are set up and happy with the diamond.

I have a few diamond grits I can start using but have not selected a strop material and made it compatible with the Edge Pro. In the past I used it on rock maple blocks for woodworking tool edges with a jig (this was pre Norton water stones and pre Shapton stones). That won't be practical for the Edge Pro and I don't really want to freehand strop pocket knives on maple

Are we going leather ? Smooth side up ? Or one of the cloth strops ?
I look forward to starting down this path but will wait for your info.
This will be for my rematch with S110V.
 
Any Hirogen will tell you to maintain your weapons with care. This way you won’t be ill prepared when the chance to take prey presents its self.

"You are superior to no one! Never underestimate your prey or disrespect its abilities. If you do, *you* will become the hunted."

Do you really want to risk carrying an inferior edge ?

Here is another reason for such an edge geometry and level of sharp.
Push cutting of course.
All in one piece. A flawless kill.

Do you really want to pass up a chance to take such a fine trophy to display on your bulkheads ?



Be Kiwi capable.

PS: besides having a fine pelt they are good eating ! ! !

PPS: I couldn’t help adding one of my favorite quotes :
Chakotay: Is your body armor designed to handle rapid pressure fluctuations?
Alpha Hirogen: It can defeat most hostile environments. I once tracked a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star.
Tom Paris: I once tracked a mouse through Jefferies tube 32.
 
Wowbagger said:
Any Hirogen will tell you to maintain your weapons with care. This way you won’t be ill prepared when the chance to take prey presents its self.

"You are superior to no one! Never underestimate your prey or disrespect its abilities. If you do, *you* will become the hunted."

...

PPS: I couldn’t help adding one of my favorite quotes :
Chakotay: Is your body armor designed to handle rapid pressure fluctuations?
Alpha Hirogen: It can defeat most hostile environments. I once tracked a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star.
Tom Paris: I once tracked a mouse through Jefferies tube 32.
Click to expand...

Star Trek fan. Love it. So many applicable life lessons there....
 
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