Is there any CBRN battlefield proof knife?

D

damib

Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
119
Hello,
is there some knife that could be considered CBRN battlefield proof? I mean something that could withstand highly corrosive environments (gases and liquids) and even some radiation while being able to be decontaminated from everything that you could encounter. I think there won't be much problem with steel, but with proper handle material.
 
Any full metal one, like the Svord peasant all metal one (if they still make it) or a full metal fixed blade like the Esee Izula, preferably in SS, I suppose.
 
I would imagine anything that has the following would be more easy to decontaminate;
1. Smooth blade finish (either bare metal or a hard, smooth finish- not a matt or Cerakote type which is rough and would retain contaminants).
2. Handle that is non-porous. A metal or FRN/GRN handle would be best, G10, Micarta, leather, bone/antler would all absorb a small amount on the surface. Rubber might be OK if it is something like Kraton, but I would be going for a FRN handle.
3. No openings, multi blades, working parts, lanyards, pommels/guards. These would retain contaminants, so I would avoid these features, though a good Fullers Earth bath should remove most of it.

Suggestions for a good CBRN knife? Something like a SOG SEAL Team or Pup with a Kydex sheath (not Cordura).
 
If I remember right, being built to be decontaminated was a specific feature of the Dark Ops knives.....

We've beat that horse to death, and it seems they're out of business now.

Anyway. This PDF


goes over Army doctrine for CBRN situations, including things you may not care about like movement and logistics. Chapter 6 has a chart detailing how to decontaminate various surfaces. Boil in bleach for fabrics, soak in hot soapy water for leather. Good luck to the poor fella who gets to apply Neets Foot oil to all that afterwards!

For plastics and rubber, some combination of hot/boiling water and bleach seems to be the answer for chemical/biological and nuclear.

So, as knarfeng mentioned, G10 and other hard plastics would work, but so would any kind of high-durometer rubber like Santoprene. Micarta is probably not a good idea since the hot water soak could cause it to de-laminate. You know the cleaning team is not going to bother with the difference between "hot", and "boiling"! It's all getting tossed in and talk to the Quartermaster if you need new issue.

Not so keen on an all-metal handle, either. Sure, it would decontaminate easy, but the gloves you're going to want to wear while using it, would not.
 
I'm no expert but from what others have said a Cold Steel SRK in Vg10 or A Fallkniven with Zytel handle which can be boiled/sterilised, Fallkniven also sell different sheaths in Zytel?
 
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Danke42 said:
Just wear it inside your bunny suit and you won't have to worry about washing it later.

If you're subject to a nuclear or chemical or biological attack you'll have bigger problems to worry about than your EDC.
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It depends on type of NBC suit and other conditions, I suppose. You are right about having bigger problem when being subjected to CBRN attack, but I also wouldn't want to lose my knife in this type of situation because of it being destroyed by decontamination. I also don't know about US army or NATO doctrine on this, but I suppose that you would need to carry your tactical gear on the outer side of the NBC suit if you would need to carry out operations in contaminated areas.
 
Danke42 said:
Just wear it inside your bunny suit and you won't have to worry about washing it later.

If you're subject to a nuclear or chemical or biological attack you'll have bigger problems to worry about than your EDC.
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to ask any questions about why somebody would want this information!
 
damib said:
It depends on type of NBC suit and other conditions, I suppose. You are right about having bigger problem when being subjected to CBRN attack, but I also wouldn't want to lose my knife in this type of situation because of it being destroyed by decontamination. I also don't know about US army or NATO doctrine on this, but I suppose that you would need to carry your tactical gear on the outer side of the NBC suit if you would need to carry out operations in contaminated areas.
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You attach all your regular tools to your web gear/vest/plate carrier but it's all disposable.

For a knife that's easy to clean something like this would be a possible choice.

izula-1_1.png
 
Danke42 said:
You attach all your regular tools to your web gear/vest/plate carrier but it's all disposable.

For a knife that's easy to clean something like this would be a possible choice.

izula-1_1.png
Click to expand...
If you go through proper decontamination procedures, after exposure during NBCD (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Defence) conditions, you can kiss all your high speed kit goodbye. You come out of NBCD decontamination the same you came into this world, but with a lot more to scream about.

The non-handled knife suggested might not get disposed of, but it's not something I'd wager money on. They're also not going to be in any mood to dick around over your keepsakes. At that point you're like someone asking for someone to change the channel on the TV, in a hospital ER, after they just got swamped with casualties from a bus crash.
 
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I worked in a nuclear power plant a few years ago. All material and tools used in the hot zone where destroyed after the job. Destroyed as in encased in some type of molten glass. Everything got scrapped. They didn't bother to check if it was radioactive or contaminated. They just threw everything away and encased it all in glass. The people where measured in a safety sluice before they could leave the plant and escape was not possible. When contaminated they scrubbed you till your skin bled and shaved all your hair off. And measured you till you where no longer positive. So i don't think any governement ( in a non emergency situation) would allow contaminated equipment to leave the area where a CBRN attack or spill happend. They even had a special holding tank in the emergency department of the local hospital to collect the water used to hose down critical patients in an emergency. This water had to be collected and encased in barrels inside the glass monoliths.
 
Irradıated (exposed to radiation) ıs not the same as contamınated, for clarification.
Though you may have activation of certain metals (they become radioactive) this only happens under specific irradiation conditions involving Neutrons at higher energies. Many times this radioactivity has a very short half life, disappearing quickly.
So, exposing a steel to lower energy radiation (e.g. x-ray at 200kV) will not make it radioactive. Even in cases where "higher" energy γ-emıtters are ınvolved, lets say Cs or Co used in medicine, there will not be any induced radioactivity in the steel.

It is true that decontamination of peope is performed without clothes on. There are, however, waterproof/suitable pieces of equipment (e.g. dosimeters) that are designed to be decontaminated (material selection, waterproofing) so you do not need to throw them away every time they pas through decontamination (They can be decontaminated and checked for contamintion separately, you will not have to carry them through). You can also use sealed plastic bags for their protection from contamination, though in the situation of knives this will only be good untill you want to use them :)
 
calm said:
Irradıated (exposed to radiation) ıs not the same as contamınated, for clarification.
Though you may have activation of certain metals (they become radioactive) this only happens under specific irradiation conditions involving Neutrons at higher energies. Many times this radioactivity has a very short half life, disappearing quickly.
So, exposing a steel to lower energy radiation (e.g. x-ray at 200kV) will not make it radioactive. Even in cases where "higher" energy γ-emıtters are ınvolved, lets say Cs or Co used in medicine, there will not be any induced radioactivity in the steel.

It is true that decontamination of peope is performed without clothes on. There are, however, waterproof/suitable pieces of equipment (e.g. dosimeters) that are designed to be decontaminated (material selection, waterproofing) so you do not need to throw them away every time they pas through decontamination (They can be decontaminated and checked for contamintion separately, you will not have to carry them through). You can also use sealed plastic bags for their protection from contamination, though in the situation of knives this will only be good untill you want to use them :)
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There are a lot of variables in these kinds of situations!

Whether or not you get to keep your ruck kinda depends on how many people need a chemical bath, that day. If it's a big group, they're going to throw everything in a pile and either boil it or destroy it, and good luck to you. So I guess the first rule for making sure your knife gets decontaminated and returned to you is to only be present for small CBRN incidents?
 
Shorttime said:
There are a lot of variables in these kinds of situations!

Whether or not you get to keep your ruck kinda depends on how many people need a chemical bath, that day. If it's a big group, they're going to throw everything in a pile and either boil it or destroy it, and good luck to you. So I guess the first rule for making sure your knife gets decontaminated and returned to you is to only be present for small CBRN incidents?
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I am referring specifically to response personnel, in radiation related incidents. Civilians and their equipment will be a different story.

There is an oldish film on this that may be worth watching, for anybody interested in the decontamination process. Dirty War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War_(film)

This is used (sometimes truncated) as a training related film too.
 
unwisefool said:
I was. What are you planning D damib ? 🤨
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Maybe some type of workers that can be possibly exposed to CBRN warfare? :rolleyes: Which type of worker is it? 🤔 I thought it's relatively clear from some of my posts, but I will say it just to be sure. I AM NOT PLANNING ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

I was also just curious about this topic after all. It can be relatively good to know which types of materials used for knives could withstand post apocalyptic nuclear wasteland and decontamination. Mainly in terms of handle materials and other materials used on knives.

I will try to study it more, but I highly doubt that military material other than NBC suits would be destroyed in mass quantities. The whole purpose of decontamination is to be able to use it again. That must be true for firearms.
 
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