Is there info or a way to find out who is who in the made in USA knife scene?

JAF1973

JAF1973

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After all this Jake Hoback controversy. Along with Jason Brous, Etc. I was wanting to know if there was any way to find out if companies like Case, Ka-Bar, Ontario, ESEE, Hogue, Zero Tolerance, Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade Etc are made in the USA? Partially made in the USA, USA made from foreign parts, Etc...

The reason I bring this up is because I am flat out confused. The majority of my knives are Taiwan, chinese, and european made. But when I have the money. I like to purchase a ZT or Hogue just for reasons of supporting USA made products and trying to keep a few fellow countrymen employed.

I am starting to feel that I cannot trust companies that claim to be 100% made in the USA in light of the recent Hoback controversy. And as far as buying customs go. My budget at best is $200 -$300 which pretty much disqualifies me from a made in the USA custom.

I guess what I am trying to ask is if there is some ways to find out if the made in USA companies I mentioned are legit and ways to verify their sources and claims? Other than taking the word of a company?
I do not mean to bring up a sore subject. But at this point. I need some help on this confusing subject. I am confused and starting to question every company to the point of where I am starting to not enjoy the knife hobby.
 
A company claiming their knives are made in the USA is supposed to meet the FTC's standards for that claim:
www.ftc.gov

Made in USA

www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

When they lie about it (QTRMSTR) or are deceptive in vague ways that fall short of actually claiming to be made in the USA (Hoback), that's trickier. But personally I have zero doubts about any of the manufacturers you listed. They're large, certainly visible enough to draw the FTC's attention, and have staked some or all of their reputation on being made in the USA -- and done so for many years -- with no sign of shenanigans.
 
Dadpool said:
A company claiming their knives are made in the USA is supposed to meet the FTC's standards for that claim:
www.ftc.gov

Made in USA

www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

When they lie about it (QTRMSTR) or are deceptive in vague ways that fall short of actually claiming to be made in the USA (Hoback), that's trickier. But personally I have zero doubts about any of the manufacturers you listed. They're large, certainly visible enough to draw the FTC's attention, and have staked some or all of their reputation on being made in the USA -- and done so for many years -- with no sign of shenanigans.
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I really do appreciate your reply. I just hope the manufacturers I mentioned are playing fair ball. I guess all I can do is assume they are. I still want to know a bit more about what I asked. Not only in knives. But other products as well.
 
bigsurbob said:
You can find fixed blades here in the Exchange in that price range. What about folders? Anything jump out at you? I'm also curious.
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I saw some nice ones on the exchange here that a guy machines himself here in the USA. If I remember right they were button lock folders with aluminum handles and decent blade steel. They weren’t anywhere near that much.
 
Another way to approach this problem would be to ask "If I were a manufacturer, how could I provide proof that I'm making everything I'm saying / implying I do?"

IMO factory tour videos are fun and interesting... But, alone, they don't totally provide ironclad proof.
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
Another way to approach this problem would be to ask "If I were a manufacturer, how could I provide proof that I'm making everything I'm saying / implying I do?"

IMO factory tour videos are fun and interesting... But, alone, they don't totally provide ironclad proof.
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Good point you make. I am surprised more USA made manufacturers do not do this. Which is why I am starting to be more skeptical. It would be nice for some USA manufacturers to show their proof for things such as washers, screws, handle material, Etc. I would be devastated if Hogue, Spyderco, or Zero Tolerance got caught up in some scandal like Jake Hoback did.
 
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tokerblue said:
To be fair, it's well known who the manufacturers of steel are and the country of origin. If people don't know that certain steels are imported into the U.S., I'd say the fault was theirs.
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And the flip side is that any company can have any blade stamped or lasered with made in USA CPM20CV steel. I for one take huge issue with the so called Chinese D2 steel claims considering USA made D2 is a different formulation in elements from Chinese D2. But yet Chinese D2 can be claimed to be authentic D2 because international steel standards have so much slack and lenience. I hate to sound prudish or like a jerk. And I want nothing more than to be 100% wrong. But I am starting to question even made in the USA claims after this Jake Hoback mess on top of Quartermaster and Brous.
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
Some pretty questionable claims made towards the end of that article. I'm pretty sure the Auto Fact and Mini Osborne are both using CPM (American) blade steel...
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I didn't quite get that either. Was the auto Fact made from a different steel at some point? I just didn't want to buy another knife and find out a week later it was made in China like my Hoback Husky.
 
JAF1973 said:
And the flip side is that any company can have any blade stamped or lasered with made in USA CPM20CV steel. I for one take huge issue with the so called Chinese D2 steel claims considering USA made D2 is a different formulation in elements from Chinese D2. But yet Chinese D2 can be claimed to be authentic D2 because international steel standards have so much slack and lenience.
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There is no US company that I know of that is doing this. Not to mention that you can't just fake steel performance. IMO, you're starting to enter tin foil hat territory.

JAF1973 said:
But I am starting to question even made in the USA claims after this Jake Hoback mess on top of Quartermaster and Brous.
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To be fair, Hoback did mention that not all parts were sourced from the US on his website. The problem was that he wasn't honest about when things changed and wasn't clear about which products he's referring to. Quartermaster has always been shady and Brous was known to directly copy other's designs. If you want to doubt other manufacturer's claims, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't mean your fears are based on reality.
 
Spyderco (Golden CO models), Benchmade, and ZT for sure manufacture in the USA. Some Kershaw. However, the steel may not originate here. Steels like M390, Elmax, Sandvik series, are manufactured overseas, mostly Europe.

So while it might be assembled and finished in the US, the source materials may not be.

I too prefer US made products, but I also realize that it's just not feasible to do everything here, nor does "Made in the USA" guarantee quality.

I almost exclusively wear shoes from San Antonio Shoemakers. All made in America, they even have their own leather tannery. Their shoes may be a little expensive, but the quality, durability, and comfort are well worth it. They are a rare example where nearly every component is made in house and sourced here if possible.

My mattress is also made in the US. However, I know the latex foam is created from latex sourced in Asia. Not China, and is sustainably sourced.

Back to knives. While M390 is a fine steel, I am glad to see American companies switching to the similar CPM-20CV and CTS-204p, both American made.
 
tokerblue said:
There is no US company that I know of that is doing this. Not to mention that you can't just fake steel performance. IMO, you're starting to enter tin foil hat territory.


To be fair, Hoback did mention that not all parts were sourced from the US on his website. The problem was that he wasn't honest about when things changed and wasn't clear about which products he's referring to. Quartermaster has always been shady and Brous was known to directly copy other's designs. If you want to doubt other manufacturer's claims, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't mean your fears are based on reality.
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I never claimed my fears were based on reality. I don't consider it fear as much as a small possibility. And simply tired of lies. And I darn sure want to be 100% wrong. I simply have lost trust in many manufacturers due to the things going on. I don't consider any business my friend or worship their footprints. I respect them as long as they remain honest. And yes, I have every right to question businesses that use made in the USA as their slogan. And know if they are practicing what they preach.

As far as faking steel performance. It happens quite often. Go watch some Cedrick and other test videos. Good D2 making 300 clean cuts through rope and another knife with supposed D2 making 40 to 80 cuts. So please don't throw me in the tin foil hat territory. Very uncalled for.

Heck CRKT and Boker in past falsely labeled their steels. Even Spyderco on their Byrd line was originally supposed to be 440C equivalent. But ended up being more like a 440B equivalent. So much for their chinese steel supplier being honest. To their credit Spyderco did disclose that. More than what I can say for Jake. But how many manufacturers did not disclose that over the years to this day? I do not want to know at this point.

And to be fair Jake sure had no problem going along with letting his knives be known as USA made so he could charge USA made prices. Then claims that he tried to get the manufacturers to change that and they would not. That is bullcrap. So are you calling Knife Center, SMKW, DLT Trading, Knife Works, and a few other retailers liars? I hope not.
Because That is what Jake is doing by his statements. I have a very hard time believing he could not get them to fix the mess he started. Or change product origin descriptions.
I have no respect for Jake due to his using his religion to rip off and lie to customers. While hiding behind Christianity as a shield.
I so happen to live 42 miles from Knife Center and know 75% of the staff. And they tell me that they do not list anything as made in the USA unless the designer says it is made in the USA.

All Jake had to do was list his products in 2 categories. One being imported or USA made from imported parts. And the other line being 100% made in USA. And that would have saved this current mess both him and his loyal customers are presently in. But Jake apparently forgot about Greed being a deadly sin and has a problem with greed.

People have every right to be pissed off with Jake over this unfortunate mess. Especially those who spent thousands on his knives under a pretense that was never cleared up and now will take a loss and have a harder time selling their Jake Hoback knives for a fair profit or break even.

And thanks to him and other liars in the knife industry/community. I am getting into collecting silver coins and done with knives other than the occasional $20-$50 CRKT/Kershaw sale special. At least I can easily test silver for it's validity. And deal with proven reputable sources.

The knife community and industry has become more toxic than Cyanide. Whether you like it or not.
 
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