Is there info or a way to find out who is who in the made in USA knife scene?

K.O.D. said:
Spyderco (Golden CO models), Benchmade, and ZT for sure manufacture in the USA. Some Kershaw. However, the steel may not originate here. Steels like M390, Elmax, Sandvik series, are manufactured overseas, mostly Europe.

So while it might be assembled and finished in the US, the source materials may not be.

I too prefer US made products, but I also realize that it's just not feasible to do everything here, nor does "Made in the USA" guarantee quality.

I almost exclusively wear shoes from San Antonio Shoemakers. All made in America, they even have their own leather tannery. Their shoes may be a little expensive, but the quality, durability, and comfort are well worth it. They are a rare example where nearly every component is made in house and sourced here if possible.

My mattress is also made in the US. However, I know the latex foam is created from latex sourced in Asia. Not China, and is sustainably sourced.

Back to knives. While M390 is a fine steel, I am glad to see American companies switching to the similar CPM-20CV and CTS-204p, both American made.
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All I ask for is honesty from any company. I got no problem with outsourced material and being assembled in the USA. But there should be more distinction between that and made in the USA with USA parts, Made in USA with 20% outsourced material. Assembled in the USA with 100% outsourced material. Etc.

I feel very bad for Jake Hoback's customers and Brous, Quartermaster, Etc. They took a loss and that is not right.
I like how Spyderco and Kershaw so far detail their origins. And Jake/other discredited makers could have easily done the same to avoid any confusion.
 
JAF1973 said:
As far as faking steel performance. It happens quite often. Go watch some Cedrick and other test videos. Good D2 making 300 clean cuts through rope and another knife with supposed D2 making 40 to 80 cuts. So please don't throw me in the tin foil hat territory. Very uncalled for.
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This isn't tin foil territory? When has any major US manufacturer ever stamped a US made blade with a steel that it is not?

JAF1973 said:
And the flip side is that any company can have any blade stamped or lasered with made in USA CPM20CV steel.
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JAF1973 said:
Heck CRKT and Boker in past falsely labeled their steels. Even Spyderco on their Byrd line was originally supposed to be 440C equivalent. But ended up being more like a 440B equivalent. So much for their chinese steel supplier being honest. To their credit Spyderco did disclose that. More than what I can say for Jake. But how many manufacturers did not disclose that? I do not want to know at this point.
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These are Chinese made blades that had issues. If a company manufactures their blades there, then it's always a possibility you're not getting what is advertised.
 
tokerblue said:
This isn't tin foil territory? When has any major US manufacturer ever stamped a US made blade with a steel that it is not?




These are Chinese made blades that had issues. If a company manufactures their blades there, then it's always a possibility you're not getting what is advertised.
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You will have to forgive me as I am not very familiar with how you para phrased my quotes. Relatively new here and not used to the formats.

Now to answer your statements.
I repeat. I want to be wrong 100%. It brings me no joy to question USA businesses and USA made. But due to years of scandals and bad suppliers I have no choice but to accept the fact that a small possibility exists that some dishonesty could happen, or has already happened. I truly hope not. I do not consider my comments tin foil hat territory. I am sorry if you think differently.

As far as Chinese blades that had issues. I never once denied that. But it is also the companies responsibility to correct those issues. And hopefully they are doing so. Even though I have some doubts on a small scale.

I really enjoyed our dialogue tokerblue. And your rebuttal is appreciated and respected. I will ponder on your comments and give them some consideration and perhaps see things differently in time.

Good night sir. I am slap dab tired and crashing out.
 
JAF1973 said:
I repeat. I want to be wrong 100%. It brings me no joy to question USA businesses and USA made. But due to years of scandals and bad suppliers I have no choice but to accept the fact that a small possibility exists that some dishonesty could happen, or has already happened. I truly hope not. I do not consider my comments tin foil hat territory. I am sorry if you think differently.
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I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical. What I'm saying is that not all manufacturers have been dishonest. I'll give those manufacturers the benefit of the doubt unless it's proven that they've been dishonest. The only statement I strongly disagreed with was that a US manufacturer would stamp 20CV on a steel that was not.

JAF1973 said:
As far as Chinese blades that had issues. I never once denied that. But it is also the companies responsibility to correct those issues. And hopefully they are doing so.
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As you've mentioned before, the trustworthy manufacturers have done just that.
 
JAF1973 said:
I really do appreciate your reply. I just hope the manufacturers I mentioned are playing fair ball. I guess all I can do is assume they are. I still want to know a bit more about what I asked. Not only in knives. But other products as well.
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If it bothers you call the maker, express your concern and ask about visiting the factory. Many of them would let you drop by for a few minutes so you could rest assured.

Anyway, the true tell for me is whether they stand behind their products. If you call and request to buy a replacement pocket clip or missing screw, a maker/ manufacturer would be happy to help. An importer would only have finished goods so they would be of no help.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
If it bothers you call the maker, express your concern and ask about visiting the factory. Many of them would let you drop by for a few minutes so you could rest assured.

Anyway, the true tell for me is whether they stand behind their products. If you call and request to buy a replacement pocket clip or missing screw, a maker/ manufacturer would be happy to help. An importer would only have finished goods so they would be of no help.

n2s
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I been thinking on this. I have called but not visited any factories as of yet. Would be kind of fun to do so. I just got to find some time where I can travel 2,500 plus miles.
 
tokerblue said:
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical. What I'm saying is that not all manufacturers have been dishonest. I'll give those manufacturers the benefit of the doubt unless it's proven that they've been dishonest. The only statement I strongly disagreed with was that a US manufacturer would stamp 20CV on a steel that was not.


As you've mentioned before, the trustworthy manufacturers have done just that.
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Good morning sir. Good points you Make tokerblue.
Read and acknowledged by myself.
 
K.O.D. said:
Spyderco (Golden CO models), Benchmade, and ZT for sure manufacture in the USA. Some Kershaw. However, the steel may not originate here. Steels like M390, Elmax, Sandvik series, are manufactured overseas, mostly Europe.

So while it might be assembled and finished in the US, the source materials may not be.

I too prefer US made products, but I also realize that it's just not feasible to do everything here, nor does "Made in the USA" guarantee quality.

I almost exclusively wear shoes from San Antonio Shoemakers. All made in America, they even have their own leather tannery. Their shoes may be a little expensive, but the quality, durability, and comfort are well worth it. They are a rare example where nearly every component is made in house and sourced here if possible.

My mattress is also made in the US. However, I know the latex foam is created from latex sourced in Asia. Not China, and is sustainably sourced.

Back to knives. While M390 is a fine steel, I am glad to see American companies switching to the similar CPM-20CV and CTS-204p, both American made.
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And I thought only New Balance has a few models of shoes made in the USA.
Very interesting.
 
Sibyrnes said:
That article states that the Bugout 535-3 does not use US made steel. Isn't S90V made by Crucible in the US?
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Seems like the article is in big time error. After researching some of their other articles asides for knives. I realized quite a bit of their articles are error prone.
 
JAF1973 said:
Seems like the article is in big time error. After researching some of their other articles asides for knives. I realized quite a bit of their articles are error prone.
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It's a shame to see an article like that posted here as a factual source of information. If I didn't know better that article could have prevented me from buying a Benchmade.
 
Sibyrnes said:
It's a shame to see an article like that posted here as a factual source of information. If I didn't know better that article could have prevented me from buying a Benchmade.
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That's why people need to do research on their own and take anything they read on the internet with a grain of salt. The steel itself lets you know it's origin.
 
I haven’t read through all the replies here so I may be reiterating points, but I look at manufacturing origin like blade steel descriptions; A company is going to give the most complete description of perceived positive qualities that they legally can to sell their knives. It may seem shady to some but saying “Knives made in the US” or “manufactured in the US” is not, nor has it ever been a claim for 100% US sourced and made. If a buyer doesn’t understand that then that’s on them, not the maker. So any company that says “Made and sourced entirely in the USA” is just that. If details are omitted, look for the things they’re not saying. The majority of US made knives and goods in general use parts sourced from overseas.

From what I understand, the Hoback controversy was only an issue because people imposed a false belief based on Hobacks vague description but was never explicitly claimed by them. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
 
RousingRabbles said:
From what I understand, the Hoback controversy was only an issue because people imposed a false belief based on Hobacks vague description but was never explicitly claimed by them. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
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From the massive Hoback thread, it looks like the other issue is that knives that were previously US made changed without notification.
 
I’ve always assumed hardware like screws, washers, bearings and springs were outsourced no matter what the country of origin on a knife was listed as. Whether they were outsourced to foreign or domestic suppliers never really mattered much to me. That’s generally considered smart business. They taught it in machine design and manufacturing methods courses decades ago in college. I’m more concerned about where the skilled labor took place when it comes to country of origin. The way I see it, if you’re a knife maker and you take material that isn’t a knife or pre-made major components and turn it into a knife in an American shop, then that knife was made in America.

This is an interesting topic. Can we please leave Hoback out of it since we already have 104 pages on him last time I checked?
 
RousingRabbles said:
I haven’t read through all the replies here so I may be reiterating points, but I look at manufacturing origin like blade steel descriptions; A company is going to give the most complete description of perceived positive qualities that they legally can to sell their knives. It may seem shady to some but saying “Knives made in the US” or “manufactured in the US” is not, nor has it ever been a claim for 100% US sourced and made. If a buyer doesn’t understand that then that’s on them, not the maker. So any company that says “Made and sourced entirely in the USA” is just that. If details are omitted, look for the things they’re not saying. The majority of US made knives and goods in general use parts sourced from overseas.

From what I understand, the Hoback controversy was only an issue because people imposed a false belief based on Hobacks vague description but was never explicitly claimed by them. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
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Someone in the Hoback thread linked the FTC guidelines for a "Made in USA" claim... I had to search it up again, pretty sure this is the same thing though;

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard#standard

Well worth the read. In particular there is a breakdown of place of origin vs cost of manufacture, for when determining if a legitimate basis for the claim actually exists.
 
tokerblue said:
This isn't tin foil territory? When has any major US manufacturer ever stamped a US made blade with a steel that it is not?
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Bark River has, albeit a mistake. Just saying it’s not unbelievable to think that either mistakes happen or a big company may decide that the steel they received is not exactly what they usually sell, but they are in a time crunch or this or that and maybe it’ll have to work for this run. I understand the concern, though I think that the bigger the company, the smaller the chance of this happening.
 
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