Is there such a thing as "sharp enough"?

[jbmonkey]

I like when I can cut really thin like hair width strips of paper and it curls as I cut. When its that sharp I've done all I can do and move along.

 

[Steel130]

I am by no means an expert at sharpening. But for me if it can push cut phone book paper with zero snags I am happy. I do all my sharpening with the sharpmaker, and I have some 320 grit ruby stones for reprofiling. I do want to get some benchstones though, just learn how to freehand.

 

[Plan138]

If it can filet a flat piece of paper, it is sharp.

 

[Tomahawk&Kukri]

For me sharp enough when shaving hair, acceptable sharp when achieving the paper cutting test...... don't really ask too much of my blades.




"I am the hunting knife, I am the talon, the beak and the fang of my master. My duty is ancient as is meat and blood"
"Eίμαι η μαχαίρα κυνηγιού, είμαι το νύχι, το ράμφος και το δόντι του αφέντη μου. Το καθήκον μου είναι αρχαίο σαν τη σάρκα και το αίμα"

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

How sharp does a pencil have to be, to write with it? It's possible to get a pencil very pointy indeed, but how strong will the point be, and for how long? If a pencil is sharp enough to write with, it's sharp enough. If a knife is sharp enough to cut with, it's sharp enough.

Am I cutting cardboard, or am I shaving? I don't shave with my knives, so that isn't my criteria.

Andy

 

[Tomahawk&Kukri]

How sharp does a pencil have to be, to write with it? It's possible to get a pencil very pointy indeed, but how strong will the point be, and for how long? If a pencil is sharp enough to write with, it's sharp enough. If a knife is sharp enough to cut with, it's sharp enough.

Am I cutting cardboard, or am I shaving? I don't shave with my knives, so that isn't my criteria.

Andy

indeed........

 

[kurodrago]

Is there such a thing as "Edge Retention Enough" Its a much better question these days!

 

[eccvets]

If you can get an edge as sharp as you possibly can, why not? excusses are like @ssholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! a super sharp edge will keep its edge longer and a 10 dollar kitchen knife sharpened to a true razor edge will out cut a 1000 dollar set of used shun knifes with a just ok edge. sure it wont last as long as the metal is not up to par but unless you work as a pro chef which I doubt many here are, you wont really notice it with simple up keep.

How sharp does a pencil have to be, to write with it? It's possible to get a pencil very pointy indeed, but how strong will the point be, and for how long? If a pencil is sharp enough to write with, it's sharp enough. If a knife is sharp enough to cut with, it's sharp enough.

Am I cutting cardboard, or am I shaving? I don't shave with my knives, so that isn't my criteria.

Andy

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

If you can get an edge as sharp as you possibly can, why not? excusses are like @ssholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! a super sharp edge will keep its edge longer and a 10 dollar kitchen knife sharpened to a true razor edge will out cut a 1000 dollar set of used shun knifes with a just ok edge. sure it wont last as long as the metal is not up to par but unless you work as a pro chef which I doubt many here are, you wont really notice it with simple up keep.

I'm not a pro chef or a barber. If I were, then I would keep my knives sharp enough for those purposes. If you are a pro chef or a barber, then sharpen your knives accordingly. But it would seem that many people here do little more with their knives than sharpen them, and if that's what you like to do, then that's fine.

But it isn't necessary to have a "hair whittling" edge if you have a working need for your knife. All of my knives will slice paper. That's all I need to know. I don't need to spend another hour or two getting them beyond that, polishing the edge and whatnot. I have other stuff to do.

Andy

 

[singularity35]

I'm not a pro chef or a barber. If I were, then I would keep my knives sharp enough for those purposes. If you are a pro chef or a barber, then sharpen your knives accordingly. But it would seem that many people here do little more with their knives than sharpen them, and if that's what you like to do, then that's fine.

But it isn't necessary to have a "hair whittling" edge if you have a working need for your knife. All of my knives will slice paper. That's all I need to know. I don't need to spend another hour or two getting them beyond that, polishing the edge and whatnot. I have other stuff to do.

Andy

If all you do is cut with your knives all day, that's fine but some of us are also here as hobbyists. Hobbyists tend to push the limits. It's kinda uncool for you to "talk down" to maybe 80 percent of the people here. You also tend to belittle the results that some of us strive so hard for.

There's this "attitude" that "macho" knife users show the rest of the people who don't use their knives much but nevertheless find enjoyment in this hobby. We each buy knives with our hard earned money to enjoy. And we will enjoy this hobby however each of us see fit. And it's not anybody's place to talk down on people who enjoy this hobby in a different way from their own.

 

[timberweasel]

I'm not a pro chef or a barber. If I were, then I would keep my knives sharp enough for those purposes. If you are a pro chef or a barber, then sharpen your knives accordingly. But it would seem that many people here do little more with their knives than sharpen them, and if that's what you like to do, then that's fine.

But it isn't necessary to have a "hair whittling" edge if you have a working need for your knife. All of my knives will slice paper. That's all I need to know. I don't need to spend another hour or two getting them beyond that, polishing the edge and whatnot. I have other stuff to do.

You make an excellent case, Andrew. I particularly like the pencil analogy:

How sharp does a pencil have to be, to write with it? It's possible to get a pencil very pointy indeed, but how strong will the point be, and for how long? If a pencil is sharp enough to write with, it's sharp enough. If a knife is sharp enough to cut with, it's sharp enough.

Am I cutting cardboard, or am I shaving? I don't shave with my knives, so that isn't my criteria.

I like to sketch and have a wide range of pencils: from a very hard graphite 9H to a very soft 9B. Different pencils for different effects, and some are better suited depending on the paper. I also sharpen them differently. So it is with my knives as well.

If all you do is cut with your knives all day, that's fine but some of us are also here as hobbyists. Hobbyists tend to push the limits.

Nothing wrong with this approach either. Maybe someday I'll be able to but a mirror edge on my knives, but it's a learning curve and I'm not there yet...

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

If all you do is cut with your knives all day, that's fine but some of us are also here as hobbyists. Hobbyists tend to push the limits. It's kinda uncool for you to "talk down" to maybe 80 percent of the people here. You also tend to belittle the results that some of us strive so hard for.

I was answering the question of the OP with my own opinion. I'm not belittling anyone or anything. I'm saying, sharpen the knife to the point where it will do what you need it to do. If someone needs or wants to be able to fillet hair, then that is a different level of sharpness than I need.

I'm also not belittling the ability to obtain a truly sharp edge. The ability to obtain a truly sharp edge will also be able to obtain an edge which is sharp enough to do most anything else. But in answer to the OP, it likely isn't necessary to get a knife sharp enough to fillet hair.

Andy

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I like to sketch and have a wide range of pencils: from a very hard graphite 9H to a very soft 9B. Different pencils for different effects, and some are better suited depending on the paper. I also sharpen them differently. So it is with my knives as well.

Exactly. I keep a very sharp edge on my small pocket EDC knives because they don't get used very often, so taking the time to put a fine edge on a slippy is worth it to me. I don't keep my working knives extremely sharp because they get used hard and that fine edge won't last very long.

Andy

 

[timberweasel]

I'm still very much a steel neophyte, but so far I like to have my VG-10 blades scalpel sharp and it's easy to do with VG-10. Something like S30V, I prefer a 'settled' edge as it will keep on cutting for a long long time--I tend to strop more than sharpen my S30V. Just got my first D2 blade and I have a feeling it will be similar to S30V in this regard. Still learning though...

 

[HeavyHanded]

If all you do is cut with your knives all day, that's fine but some of us are also here as hobbyists. Hobbyists tend to push the limits. It's kinda uncool for you to "talk down" to maybe 80 percent of the people here. You also tend to belittle the results that some of us strive so hard for.

There's this "attitude" that "macho" knife users show the rest of the people who don't use their knives much but nevertheless find enjoyment in this hobby. We each buy knives with our hard earned money to enjoy. And we will enjoy this hobby however each of us see fit. And it's not anybody's place to talk down on people who enjoy this hobby in a different way from their own.

Up until quite recently, there was a pervasive attitude on the forum (still lingering from some members - one in particular that probably cannot freehand well enough to cut the cheese - "excusses are like @ssholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! a super sharp edge will keep its edge longer ") - that anyone who doesn't sing the praises of a hair whittling edge probably isn't skilled enough to produce one. Individuals espousing a coarse edge were routinely talked down to, despite the body of evidence disproving the 100% utility of one edge prep over another. As I posted earlier, the best edge is the one that does what needs doing with the least amount of downtime and energy expended. For myself, I remember the first whittling edges I achieved and after watching them dull within days at work had to rethink the whole business. Surprisingly the things (aside from shaving) that a highly polished edge does best are heavy chopping chores - I spend more time on my axes, hatchets, and machetes (per item) than I do on my EDU knives. Just as there's a noticeable increase in chopping ability with a polished edge, there's a huge increase in slicing ability with an edge that sports more tooth (pretty sure you recently did some experiments with larger grit diamond stropping and were pleasantly surprised by the results).

That said, if one cannot sharpen an edge to whatever degree they desire they cannot experiment to see what does what best, so there are plenty of good reasons to learn and experiment - push the envelope. I have to admit though, lately I just do everything using Murray Carter's method - leaves me with an edge that seems to be the best compromise between push and draw cutting and can be whipped up with ridiculous ease and speed. It was getting too confusing keeping track of what was sharpened which way and stropped on what...

 

[singularity35]

Up until quite recently, there was a pervasive attitude on the forum (still lingering from some members - one in particular that probably cannot freehand well enough to cut the cheese - "excusses are like @ssholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! a super sharp edge will keep its edge longer ") - that anyone who doesn't sing the praises of a hair whittling edge probably isn't skilled enough to produce one. Individuals espousing a coarse edge were routinely talked down to, despite the body of evidence disproving the 100% utility of one edge prep over another. As I posted earlier, the best edge is the one that does what needs doing with the least amount of downtime and energy expended. For myself, I remember the first whittling edges I achieved and after watching them dull within days at work had to rethink the whole business. Surprisingly the things (aside from shaving) that a highly polished edge does best are heavy chopping chores - I spend more time on my axes, hatchets, and machetes (per item) than I do on my EDU knives. Just as there's a noticeable increase in chopping ability with a polished edge, there's a huge increase in slicing ability with an edge that sports more tooth (pretty sure you recently did some experiments with larger grit diamond stropping and were pleasantly surprised by the results).

That said, if one cannot sharpen an edge to whatever degree they desire they cannot experiment to see what does what best, so there are plenty of good reasons to learn and experiment - push the envelope. I have to admit though, lately I just do everything using Murray Carter's method - leaves me with an edge that seems to be the best compromise between push and draw cutting and can be whipped up with ridiculous ease and speed. It was getting too confusing keeping track of what was sharpened which way and stropped on what...

Well said.

 

[Dorito Monk]

Up until quite recently, there was a pervasive attitude on the forum (still lingering from some members - one in particular that probably cannot freehand well enough to cut the cheese - "excusses are like @ssholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! a super sharp edge will keep its edge longer ") - that anyone who doesn't sing the praises of a hair whittling edge probably isn't skilled enough to produce one. Individuals espousing a coarse edge were routinely talked down to, despite the body of evidence disproving the 100% utility of one edge prep over another. As I posted earlier, the best edge is the one that does what needs doing with the least amount of downtime and energy expended. For myself, I remember the first whittling edges I achieved and after watching them dull within days at work had to rethink the whole business. Surprisingly the things (aside from shaving) that a highly polished edge does best are heavy chopping chores - I spend more time on my axes, hatchets, and machetes (per item) than I do on my EDU knives. Just as there's a noticeable increase in chopping ability with a polished edge, there's a huge increase in slicing ability with an edge that sports more tooth (pretty sure you recently did some experiments with larger grit diamond stropping and were pleasantly surprised by the results).

Nicely put. You bring up a very good point - lots of folks on here become pretty snobby about their edges, but in a great many ways, a neat and tidy looking edge-pro finished mirror sheen edge isn't the be-all and end-all of sharpening.

The attitude that folks who don't ensure that all of their knives have a perfectly even, mirror-polished edge are lazy or something strikes me as extremely bizarre. I should think that folks on here would recognize that a lot of folks actually work for a living and don't have hours upon hours each day to spend giving their knives a mirror polished edge, let alone the cash to buy an elaborate sharpening system like an Edge Pro or a full selection of Diasharp stones. It's absolutely fine to spend the time and money to sharpen your knives that way if you so choose, but it's important to keep in mind that you're not 'better' or 'more dedicated' (or some such nonsense) than folks who don't choose to put that much time, money, and effort into it.

Comments like "Excuses are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink" or "Why accept mediocrity?" demonstrate a pretty profound ignorance, especially coming from long-time members. :barf:

Besides, Having a 'screaming sharp' edge or whatever is well and good when the most use your knife gets is opening a new package of printer paper at the office, but if you use your knife enough that it requires more frequent sharpening, taking the time to put a perfectly mirror-polished edge on your knife might not be a viable option, and I don't understand why some people perceive that as a bad thing. I've enjoyed experimenting with quite a few different sharpening techniques and have done my morning shaves with pocket knives in the past just to see if I could get them sharp enough and all that. I can definitely see the fun in getting your knives as sharp as humanly possible and trying out new things, but that's all the use I have for that style of sharpening - it's a fun part of the hobby, to be sure, but definitely not a necessity.

Just my 0.02$

 

[Ankerson]

Sharp enough to me = Able to perform the tasks at hand safely and efficiently.

 

[Daddyo16]

.....

 

[Jason B.]

Sharp is a perception created by experience, everyone's answer will be different.