Is this a Chinese made snow & nealley?

[DarthTaco123]

The Snow and Nealley marked M has been determined to be a fake, someone put a paper label and handle on it and tried to sell it as a Snow and Nealley.

 

[grafton]

Interesting. I had some communication with the guy that sold it and he told me he used to make sheaths for S&N and had the axe from back in the 80's when they sent it to him. The overall look of it did not add up but he had a story to go with it. Kind of hard to believe someone would go to the trouble of faking one for a few bucks but you never can tell...I guess there is one answer to my questions, any more?

 

[rjdankert]

Bob, your research of the company and history of ownership is great and much appreciated. . .

Thank you.

. . .There is a difference though between company history and trying to age an axe in the hand. That is where the information available is lacking and there are many unanswered questions. . .

It seems to me that trying to age an axe in hand would require a knowledge of company history so you are looking at a known vs an unknown. However, for the practical purpose of identification on a forum, I think we're pretty much stuck pictures and text.

Some of the specific questions I have are:

What year did the first China heads show up? We have narrowed this down but not exactly...
What year did the stamping of Snow & Nealley Co Bangor ME on the side of the head stop? Did this stop all of a sudden or was it fazed out slowly?
What year was S&N stamped in place of the weight stamp like the axe in this thread and why?
What year did the rounded nice, elegant looking fawns foot handles change to the flat slab sided one like the axe in this thread?
What year did the font and design of the handle mark change to the one like the axe in this thread?
Why are some S&N axes marked October 1, 1952?
There was at least one S&N that was marked with an "M" what the heck is that about?
Were any of the axes marked differently for different distributers? LL Bean obviously but what about others?
What year did the Hudson Bay patterns change (sometime after 1968) but when exactly? There are at least three variations.
What year was the original Our Best axe head label changed?

I would also like to know that information plus more. Believe me, I've spent more time than I care to admit chasing S&N. If I had found those answers they would have been included in the timeline.

Bob

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If anyone has or finds some S&N information to share, please post it on the timeline thread. thanks

 

[grafton]

Very good. The importance of the company history can not be overstated. I just wish we had a visual layout of the product timeline to better understand some of the changes. Over the years of collecting and researching certain LL Bean items I have been spoiled by the available written record in the form of mailing catalogs and company archives. It is nice to be able to identify when certain items were sold with somewhat more ease than what we have with a company like S&N. I have to believe there is an employee or two of the old factory or a family member still living who may have some of these answers. I hope we can get at least some of the answers to all the questions before they are gone forever. Good luck with your research and please keep us informed of any new info!

 

[Steve Tall]

...If anyone has or finds some S&N information to share, please post it on the timeline thread. thanks

...I just wish we had a visual layout of the product timeline to better understand some of the changes...

I've added some more info to Bob's S&N timeline thread, here.

... I have to believe there is an employee or two of the old factory or a family member still living who may have some of these answers. I hope we can get at least some of the answers to all the questions before they are gone forever...

The 4/20/2007 article from the Bangor Daily News (that Bob linked to) names all three employees of the "three employee company" that was Snow & Nealley at that time, including a long-time employee who was rehired after seven remaining employees were layed off in 2003 (leaving just a salesperson to "sell off and ship the remaining inventory"). One or more of these three people could possibly be found, if you want to try to get some questions answered.

Somehow those 3 employees managed to "manufacture", package, and ship 8,000 to 9,000 axes and mauls per year (an average of 32 to 36 per day, assuming 250 workdays per year), according to that article.

 

[grafton]

Thanks. That is good information especially on the later models. I was thinking more like someone who might have worked there around 1950 but that might be a stretch.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Is it true that they're now being produced in the US with Chinese steel ? Because I've heard that somewhere.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Is it true that they're now being produced in the US with Chinese steel ? Because I've heard that somewhere.

That was probably someone erroneously referencing the heads that were rough-forged in China. Current production is stated as 100% USA-made, and based on my conversations with one of the owners I would be shocked if they were using China-sourced steel, as they're very proud to be bringing everything back to the US.

 

[rjdankert]

Is it true that they're now being produced in the US with Chinese steel ? Because I've heard that somewhere.

I've heard that too. I've also heard that American Hickory is used in the handles, but are formed in China. I've spent some amount of time trying to confirm or deny either and haven't found documentation. I do believe the quote from Chris Hilty (in the S&N timeline thread) that the heads are forged here. I also wonder where the covers are made.

Bob

 

[serotina]

From the 80s until 2000 the heads were unmarked, but USA made still I believe. How's the steel?

I have two S&N Hudson Bay's that date from the early 1980's. The one I have on hand this evening is unmarked, I recall the other being marked but that could be wishing - it needs re-hanging and I haven't looked at it in years.

Glad to hear the company is back in good hands and making axes in the USA - Maine no less!

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

I have a 3.5 pound head on a 30-inch handle I bought back in the late 80's/very early 90's. It had a metallic paper sticker on the head when new but no other markings. After reading this thread I went back and checked under the pole. Nothing there I can see but I assume this was still a U.S. made head in those days. It kind of seems like S&N was not above playing fast and lose with the facts I would not state anything as absolute about my axe.

 

[serotina]

I have two S&N Hudson Bay's that date from the early 1980's. The one I have on hand this evening is unmarked, I recall the other being marked but that could be wishing - it needs re-hanging and I haven't looked at it in years.!

Looked at my other one today (just an axe head), it's marked Snow & Nealley Bangor Me on one side and 1 3/4 on the underside of the poll. It could easily have sat on a store rack for several years though - we lived in some pretty rural areas where product didn't always move fast.