Is this acceptable?

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Nov 15, 2010
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I just bought two Spyderco sprint runs, the Paramilitary 2 20CP and Caly 3.5 Super Blue. The Para2 was bought NIB on the secondary market and the Caly 3.5 was bought from new from ebay.

I love my Para2 and it is going to be a user knife but it FnF is not great at least for mine. The Spyder Hole doesn't look like it was polished up at all. While the hole is not rough on the inside, the cracks can be felt with my nails. Also the liners have small chip shown below on both sides.
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As for the Caly 3.5 Super Blue:
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There is a different 'tint' near the tip of the blade and this occurs on both sides. This is actually my second one. I had returned the first one because it looked far worse with many light coloured strips on the darker part of the steel.

So is this acceptable?
 
Those are all normal. I think you are being overly picky, especially for production knives--if you want perfect fit and finish, expect to pay for it.

If I recall correctly, the holes can be cut with either a water-jet cutter or a laser cutter. The cutting process does not leave a perfectly smooth surface, and to be honest the additional cost to polish the inside of the hole would be superfluous--again, it would add to the cost.

Those little "chips" are production marks, probably from the machine that clamps the liners down for grinding/finishing, and are on every Para2 I've ever seen. You aren't the first person to think that these are defects; they are by-products of the production process.

The Caly 3.5 Super Blue sprint is made with a carbon steel. Carbon steels are going to patina and discolor due to their lack of corrosion/stain resistance. A small amount of maintenance is required to keep carbon steels from rusting or forming a patina. If you want a pristine looking blade, you should go for a stainless steel over a carbon steel. If you are planning on using it, then the blade is going to develop a patina from use anyways.

By the way, welcome to Bladeforums! If these type of things bother you, I'd suggest looking at Chris Reeve Knives or a custom knifemaker--but also be ready to shell out 3 or 4 times the amount than you paid for the Para2 and Caly 3.5. I have yet to see any kind of production tooling mark on any CRK that I've handled, and I've probably had upwards of 50-60 go through my hands.
 
Super Blue is not a stainless steel. It's going to change color with time and use. As for the P2, that would actually bother me, too.

ETA: As for the post above, I've got production knives that are top-notch in fit and finish. The Caly3 in my pocket currently is damn near perfect. If you want to see Spyderco's custom quality in a production price, buy a Street Beat.
 
Cynic is correct, you are being overly criitical of things that have no bearing on collectability, value, form, function or anything else. Almost all producrion knives have something that is not perfect, that is the nature of the business. Aside from that perfection is a very subjective status.
The opening hole can be polished if you can get ahold of a dowel rod, some sandpaper, and are mechanically inclined.
The blade can be cleaned up with Flitz or any number of metal polishes.
The liner is that way because they are produced in such a way that many are "cut" from a flat sateel stock, think of the parts of a model car.

Enjoy your knives and don't worry.
 
Those are all normal. I think you are being overly picky, especially for production knives--if you want perfect fit and finish, expect to pay for it.

If I recall correctly, the holes can be cut with either a water-jet cutter or a laser cutter. The cutting process does not leave a perfectly smooth surface, and to be honest the additional cost to polish the inside of the hole would be superfluous--again, it would add to the cost.

Those little "chips" are production marks, probably from the machine that clamps the liners down for grinding/finishing, and are on every Para2 I've ever seen. You aren't the first person to think that these are defects; they are by-products of the production process.
+1 on this. Everything looks normal to me as well.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and the response, I thought I was being too picky as well with Para2 and Caly cause these are my first higher end knives.

I didn't think it was patina on the Caly 3.5 because colour is so evenly distributed. Its all good though cause its forming a natural patina after one day of wear.

After playing and using these knives for few days I had already considered getting a sebenza.
 
Great! Don't be afraid to get out and use those Spyderco's, the sprint run steels they are made out of should keep you cutting for a long time.
 
Welcome to the forum Richard,those are both great knives you have.I have the Para2 and I'm happy with the way it works.To be honest I've never even looked at the inside of the hole or the liners.I bet those light machine marks inside the deployment hole could be buffed out with a dremel polishing tip and compound.
 
I'm surprised by the F&F of the Para. I agree that mass-produced knives should be expected to be less than perfect, but we've also come to expect better than average (MUCH better than average in fact) from Spyderco. I have never seen anything like that before - on a Spyderco.
 
The little notch on the Para2 liners seems to occur on just about all of them - I have several, and all have that.

My Caly3.5 Super Blue had the same tint/polish issue at the tip. Oddly (?), it disappeared after I cleaned the blade, so on mine at least it seems to have been an oil/preservative issue rather than a polishing issue, as I'd initially thought.
 
I'm afraid I must disagree with you Cynic2701. "If you want perfect fit an finish expect to pay for it"
We have payed for it. The standard para 2 is a hundred dollar knife, never mind the Carpenter sprint run. I realize hanging out here a lot can mess with one's perspective about this sort of thing but Spyderco's are expensive knives. I have $8 knives from Sanrenmu with better fit and finish than that Para 2. If you think it's acceptable for the price than you have amazingly low standards. If you think you need to spend $400 on something from CRK to get a knife without obvious flaws then there is only one possible word that can be used to describe you: wrong.

To the original poster: I would contact Spyderco about the Para 2 and see what they say. I personally wouldn't be happy with it.

The Caly 3 doesn't look like a problem, especially considering the steel in question.
 
I'm afraid I must disagree with you Cynic2701. "If you want perfect fit an finish expect to pay for it"
We have payed for it. The standard para 2 is a hundred dollar knife, never mind the Carpenter sprint run. I realize hanging out here a lot can mess with one's perspective about this sort of thing but Spyderco's are expensive knives. I have $8 knives from Sanrenmu with better fit and finish than that Para 2. If you think it's acceptable for the price than you have amazingly low standards. If you think you need to spend $400 on something from CRK to get a knife without obvious flaws then there is only one possible word that can be used to describe you: wrong.

To the original poster: I would contact Spyderco about the Para 2 and see what they say. I personally wouldn't be happy with it.

The Caly 3 doesn't look like a problem, especially considering the steel in question.

Do you have a few pictures of your Para2 for reference? I think a picture of the liners ane the opening hole would suffice.
 
I'm afraid I must disagree with you Cynic2701. "If you want perfect fit an finish expect to pay for it"
We have payed for it. The standard para 2 is a hundred dollar knife, never mind the Carpenter sprint run. I realize hanging out here a lot can mess with one's perspective about this sort of thing but Spyderco's are expensive knives. I have $8 knives from Sanrenmu with better fit and finish than that Para 2. If you think it's acceptable for the price than you have amazingly low standards. If you think you need to spend $400 on something from CRK to get a knife without obvious flaws then there is only one possible word that can be used to describe you: wrong.

To the original poster: I would contact Spyderco about the Para 2 and see what they say. I personally wouldn't be happy with it.

The Caly 3 doesn't look like a problem, especially considering the steel in question.

Here's something from another post I made about fit and finish:

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Sebenza is a holy grail knife for me. I would, however, say that it is just about the perfect EDC for me.

A lot of people like to talk about fit and finish, but it seems unusually rare for anyone to comment on anything other than surface appearance. Finish is just that--surface appearance. For example, I have a CF ZDP-189 Caly 3 that is an awesome little knife, but the fit and finish are far from perfection. The lamination on the blade is slightly off, so that lamination line on the right side of the blade is about 2mm higher than on the left side. The carbon fiber is not uniformly milled (the pattern in the carbon fiber shifts and distorts in sections), and although the finish of the stainless steel used for the back spacer, lock bar, and liners are uniformly polished, they are not perfectly fitted. You can see small gaps and imperfections in the lines when you inspect the knife closely.

To provide another example of fit, I can think back to my Sage 2 (which many tout has equal fit and finish to the Sebenza). Upon disassembling the knife inspect the pillar standoffs more closely. They do not match up perfectly, so an admittedly small amount of fiddling is required to seat the screws back into the standoffs correctly. Further, the stop pin appears to be soldered onto one scale, with a 0.5mm hole drilled into the other side for it to slide into. The phosphor bronze washers fit loosely over the pivot, and when looking closely at where the stop pin and the tang of the blade connect, one can see that it has contact on less than half of the contact area. Additionally, to the best of my knowledge, the end of the lock bar was not heat treated. As the original owner, I also had the opportunity to watch as the end of the titanium lock bar began to compress and indent as the RIL on the Sage 2 wore in. Overall, the construction (the fit) was not as high as the Sebenza's, nor was the finish nearly as good--small tooling marks could be seen on the interior of the titanium scales.

To provide yet another example, I would urge Busse owners to examine the micarta slabs on their knives. In my experience, I have yet to see a perfectly uniform and symmetrical set of scales; all the scales I've seen have been asymmetrically ground/milled/machined.

So far, my Sebenza has had none of the fit and finish issues that I've seen on other high-end knives I've owned. Disassemble a Sebenza, and take a look at the standoffs: you will not be able to put them back on the appropriate chicago screws until they are perfectly aligned. The same goes for the bushing system on the pivot--the tolerances (the fit) are so tight that sometimes I've had difficulty sliding the bushing back over the chicago screw. In comparison to the Para2's bushing system, I cannot over tighten the pivot or the stop pin screws to the point that the blade tension changes. Loosening or tightening the screws affects the lock-up percentage on my Sebenza, making it noticeably earlier the tighter they get. Even without a pivot screw, my Sebenza opens and closes, and locks up solidly enough that the knife is completely safe for light uses.

But impeccable fit and finish aren't the reason why the Sebenza is just about perfect for me. As a lefty, I appreciate the fact that a high end knife manufacturer acknowledges that lefties exist in the market, and are willing to produce a true left-handed version--just providing a set of holes for left-handed carry DOES NOT provide for a completely left-handed knife. The ease of maintenance and cleaning is another enormous plus (even compared to the relatively open backed Sage 2, and its straight forward disassembly/reassembly). The high hollow grind allows for more of the knife blade to be sharpened away before aggressive re-profiling is needed, and it also provides for greater tip strength than a fully flat ground version a la Spyderco's style.

But, like everything else, the Sebenza has its downsides. Of which I can list two: cost, and the difficulty of immediately procuring the exact version one desires.

I can go further, and say that the washers on the inside of both my LH Military and Gayle Bradley fit loosely around the pivot--there is a small amount of space that is easily visible around the pivot screw when they are fit over it. My LH Military has a slightly off-ground blade, and it is further compounded by being pulled slightly to the side when I tighten the screws down. Take apart a Gayle Bradley, and I'm sure you will find tooling marks all over the inner side of the CF scales, as well as on the polished stainless steel liners. On my GB, the blade tang had a burr that went around the entire corner that the liner lock engages near. Every phosphor bronze washer I've seen on all production knives, except for my CRK's, have been slightly corroded and have marks that look like sand has been left on the blade pivots.

But to be perfectly honest, I'm not bashing Spyderco. I really like their knives, and I own more of them than any other brand of knife. At their price points, they make knives that are very hard to beat, and I am consistently surprised at the quality of knives I can get for $100 or $150. I'm simply being brutally honest: to a practiced and critical eye, excellent fit and finish is extremely hard to achieve. I'd also wager money that if you put a sub-$100 knife in front of me, I could point out tooling marks, and could make a pretty good estimation of where "hidden" internal tooling marks will likely be.

When I buy a sub-$300 knife I buy it for performance, I don't buy it expecting perfect levels of fit and finish.
 
It will not hurt to contact Spyderco, so I will probably do that. I'll have to get the Manix 2 BD30P If I have to send in my Para2 to Spyderco.
 
I don't think I have ever seen the term "fit and finish" used on any other knife-related forum as much as it's thrown around here. A knife is a tool and unless you are collecting for monetary gain, I think alot of it is being overly critical. I wonder how many of us go over other purchases (whether they be more or less expensive) with such a fine tooth comb? If you are going to use it, it's going to get scratched, worn, and dinged up. Unless the flaw compromises the intergity of the item, it seems to me we are just trying to rationalize/ justify the purchase and/or cost.
 
It will not hurt to contact Spyderco, so I will probably do that. I'll have to get the Manix 2 BD30P If I have to send in my Para2 to Spyderco.

Why?

Your personal view of its cosmetic appearance is hardly a warranty issue.
 
I think it's good to bring this sort of thing up in the forum. What harm is there in letting Sal and company know what our expectations are, and perhaps in the future, a bit more finishing can be added to our knives. The only thing I see as needing extra work is the hole. None of the Spydies I'm carrying have such roughly finished hole. They are CTS-XHP Manix 2, Salt 1, SB Caly3.5, and 9Cr18Mo Mule. (I brought some extra to lend to a friend today, I don't normally carry more than 2 at a time)
 
So is this acceptable?

In my opinion, Yes, it is totally acceptable.

If I purchased one that looked like that and I did not like it, I would either polish out those areas myself or pay someone else to do so. I will be honest though, I can not imagine caring enough about what I see in those images to bother with it.

Opinions vary considerably.

I understand that many people want a knife with impeccable fit and finish that will look great even in tight macro shots. I suppose it would be swell if all Spydercos did, but I am not sure this is an expectation that Spyderco ever promised meet. No offense...that is just my take on things.

ANY knife will have fit and finish flaws if you look close enough...some makers may force you to look a lot closer than others, and some makers focus on other things. Spend your money accordingly.
 
Everything I see in the pics is normal. If you want Spyderco to hide the laser start/finish point and polish the inside of the Spyderhole, it will cost more money. I think that would be a waste of money though.
All factory knives have these things, you will never find a perfect knife.
 
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