Is this an 1821 pattern sword

[Lefty Malone]

Hi everyone

I'm new to swords, but recently acquired this one. From what I could see (Google) this is probably an British 1821 pattern Royal Artillery officer's sword. It does not have a metal scabbard, but rather what looks like a leather sword bag of sorts. Also, is it possible to link the serial number to a person? Any help would be appreciated.

The length of the blade is just over 80cm (31 inches).

Regards
Lefty

 

[Rhinoknives1]

It did have a metal scabbard at one time & that leather donut on the hilt, called the Throat was part of it. A guide & to cut down on scratches etc...That donut should slide off. That sword may have been issued to more than one Officer so AFAIK the chances of tracing it are very slim without any Provenance. Did any papers come with it? That’s about all I can help. Good luck!

 

[Lefty Malone]

It did have a metal scabbard at one time & that leather donut on the hilt, called the Throat was part of it. A guide & to cut down on scratches etc...That donut should slide off. That sword may have been issued to more than one Officer so AFAIK the chances of tracing it are very slim without any Provenance. Did any papers come with it? That’s about all I can help. Good luck!

Thanks, Lawrence. No papers, unfortunately.

 

[horseclover]

It appears to be a WWI period George V sword and as you can see an artillery sword. I don't know if it is a Wilkinson made blade sold by Batson. The Old Swords database does not list working dates for the tailor/retailer. If there is no personal monogram to work with, the chance you can trace the user is pretty slim. The fellow that has the Wilkinson proof books is Richard at http://armsresearch.co.uk/

For a fee, he will look for the serial number and not charge if he finds nothing. Here is what the proof book looks like and the page referencing my 1821 cavalry officer sword. I had a good start, with a friend immediately finding the officer. Going through the process of working with Richard, the wait was about a month (mailing to the UK).




The leather washer stays with the blade and acts as a weather seal and bumper. Many older sword, including through the 19th century had blades seated on the washer/bumper/seal. Those washers/bumpers were sometimes felt. Here is an old Berger of mine



You will find blades seated on the washers throughout the 19th century and you will note a gap on so, so many old sabres that have lost the washer/bumper. The later French and English practice of slipping a washer on a fully seated blade comes along in the 19th century.

Cheers
GC

 

[horseclover]

During WWI, many of the officers would have had two scabbards. One bright steel for dress and the other leather covered for his field Sam Browne belt and accessories.

Officers were responsible for the costs, so this fellow probably bought his whole kit from Baston.

Cheers
GC

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...sh-pattern-1821-officers-swo-313-c-728cf770fd

 

[Lefty Malone]

During WWI, many of the officers would have had two scabbards. One bright steel for dress and the other leather covered for his field Sam Browne belt and accessories.

Officers were responsible for the costs, so this fellow probably bought his whole kit from Baston.

Cheers
GC

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...sh-pattern-1821-officers-swo-313-c-728cf770fd

Thanks, GC!

 

[The Zieg]

It appears to be a WWI period George V sword and as you can see an artillery sword. I don't know if it is a Wilkinson made blade sold by Batson. The Old Swords database does not list working dates for the tailor/retailer. If there is no personal monogram to work with, the chance you can trace the user is pretty slim. The fellow that has the Wilkinson proof books is Richard at http://armsresearch.co.uk/

For a fee, he will look for the serial number and not charge if he finds nothing. Here is what the proof book looks like and the page referencing my 1821 cavalry officer sword. I had a good start, with a friend immediately finding the officer. Going through the process of working with Richard, the wait was about a month (mailing to the UK).

View attachment 1440188
View attachment 1440189 View attachment 1440190 View attachment 1440191

The leather washer stays with the blade and acts as a weather seal and bumper. Many older sword, including through the 19th century had blades seated on the washer/bumper/seal. Those washers/bumpers were sometimes felt. Here is an old Berger of mine

View attachment 1440193

You will find blades seated on the washers throughout the 19th century and you will note a gap on so, so many old sabres that have lost the washer/bumper. The later French and English practice of slipping a washer on a fully seated blade comes along in the 19th century.

Cheers
GC

Thanks for dropping knowledge on us once again, HC! An associated question: Did other makers start copying the Wilkinson proof slug and star? If so, when? Or is this feature a reliable indicator of Wilkinson manufacture?

Zieg

 

[horseclover]

To my knowledge, Wilkinson was responsible for first displaying the two interlocking triangles and slugs. As time went on, the slugs became identifiable via marks and letters on the plug. I am by far not the authority on 19th century British swords.

http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showthread.php?85824-Wilkinson-Sword-Characteristics

Cheers
GC

 

[The Zieg]

To my knowledge, Wilkinson was responsible for first displaying the two interlocking triangles and slugs. As time went on, the slugs became identifiable via marks and letters on the plug. I am by far not the authority on 19th century British swords.

http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showthread.php?85824-Wilkinson-Sword-Characteristics

Cheers
GC

Maybe not, but you sure are a good source overall. Thanks!

Zieg