Is this an 1821 pattern sword

Discussion in 'Sword Discussion' started by Lefty Malone, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. Lefty Malone

    Lefty Malone

    7
    Oct 7, 2020
    Hi everyone

    I'm new to swords, but recently acquired this one. From what I could see (Google) this is probably an British 1821 pattern Royal Artillery officer's sword. It does not have a metal scabbard, but rather what looks like a leather sword bag of sorts. Also, is it possible to link the serial number to a person? Any help would be appreciated.

    The length of the blade is just over 80cm (31 inches).

    Regards
    Lefty

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  2. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 1, 2013
    It did have a metal scabbard at one time & that leather donut on the hilt, called the Throat was part of it. A guide & to cut down on scratches etc...That donut should slide off. That sword may have been issued to more than one Officer so AFAIK the chances of tracing it are very slim without any Provenance. Did any papers come with it? That’s about all I can help. Good luck!
     
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  3. Lefty Malone

    Lefty Malone

    7
    Oct 7, 2020
    Thanks, Lawrence. No papers, unfortunately.
     
  4. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    It appears to be a WWI period George V sword and as you can see an artillery sword. I don't know if it is a Wilkinson made blade sold by Batson. The Old Swords database does not list working dates for the tailor/retailer. If there is no personal monogram to work with, the chance you can trace the user is pretty slim. The fellow that has the Wilkinson proof books is Richard at http://armsresearch.co.uk/

    For a fee, he will look for the serial number and not charge if he finds nothing. Here is what the proof book looks like and the page referencing my 1821 cavalry officer sword. I had a good start, with a friend immediately finding the officer. Going through the process of working with Richard, the wait was about a month (mailing to the UK).

    16183_50.jpg
    1821e.jpg 1821k.jpg 1821j.jpg

    The leather washer stays with the blade and acts as a weather seal and bumper. Many older sword, including through the 19th century had blades seated on the washer/bumper/seal. Those washers/bumpers were sometimes felt. Here is an old Berger of mine

    CCR4045200991194773.jpg

    You will find blades seated on the washers throughout the 19th century and you will note a gap on so, so many old sabres that have lost the washer/bumper. The later French and English practice of slipping a washer on a fully seated blade comes along in the 19th century.

    Cheers
    GC
     
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  5. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
  6. Lefty Malone

    Lefty Malone

    7
    Oct 7, 2020
  7. The Zieg

    The Zieg

    Jan 31, 2002
    Thanks for dropping knowledge on us once again, HC! An associated question: Did other makers start copying the Wilkinson proof slug and star? If so, when? Or is this feature a reliable indicator of Wilkinson manufacture?

    Zieg
     
  8. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Lefty Malone and The Zieg like this.
  9. The Zieg

    The Zieg

    Jan 31, 2002
    Maybe not, but you sure are a good source overall. Thanks!

    Zieg
     

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