Is this celluloid out gassing?

L

lithicus

Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
800
This might be my first ever celluloid knife. I'd been looking for an Irish Jack for quite some time now. Won it recently on auction site. Wonder if I stole it from eisman eisman 😝
Anyway, I knew this was celluloid when I bought it. And, I felt if I ever needed to I could reach out to someone like glennbad glennbad to recover it.

Now that I have it in hand, I worry that some of this pitting is from out gassing even though the covers don't seem to have shrunken too awful much. What worries me is WHERE it is pitting. For example, both blades seem to be less pitted on the "inside" part of the knife. Presumably because it is being protected by the other blade.

What do you guys think? Is this out gassing? If it is, I think I'll work on getting it recovered sooner than later. If not, I might hold off a bit.

Thanks guys!!

yL7jBJp.jpeg

Qw14YXN.jpeg

xFEw0FH.jpeg

1NJA7vR.jpeg

zXhylOh.jpeg

wEfIHYp.jpeg

CYB5CJt.jpeg

ZHRjLcl.jpeg

pUSLUpo.jpeg

MejaHIE.jpeg
 
Last edited:
r8shell said:
I would hazard a guess that it's the early stages of outgassing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input!!

I feel like I usually only see badly shrunken covers pulling away from the liners and bolsters with out gassing. I wonder if this was stored in a drawer or something until it arrived in my mail box. That would certainly explain some of the pitting despite the covers being in decent condition all things considered. I have it out in the open now and away from sunlight.

If this is indeed the early stages of out gassing, I may have to look at getting it recovered sooner than later. It seems to be a relatively hard to find pattern. So, I want to preserve it and keep it in good condition for use. I don't mind putting a little more money into it.
 
Arathol said:
Yeah, that ones done for. If you have plans to do anything with this knife, now is the time....
Click to expand...
Thanks! And yea, I definitely want to get ahead of this. I have no qualms about starting the recover process ASAP.
I don't know of too many reputable people that do recovers. But, I'll reach out to the ones I do know.

I can be a little handy at times, but I've never disassembled a knife. I wonder if I could manage to get the covers off myself as I imagine it might be a little while before books open up.
 
There is an article on Celluloid on the Latest Resources links on the right hand of the page when opening the Forum, I can't seem to open any of it unfortunately as it is an interesting & scientific article covering all aspects of the material. Paying members may be able to open it or maybe the links are dead?

If the blades are displaying pitting yet the rest of the knife is in good order it does suggest that some chemical change may be occurring, but check out that link before you do anything?

Getting the scales off without dismantling the knife would be easy enough, but best wear some mask etc to protect from cell particles or vapours.
 
Will Power said:
There is an article on Celluloid on the Latest Resources links on the right hand of the page when opening the Forum, I can't seem to open any of it unfortunately as it is an interesting & scientific article covering all aspects of the material. Paying members may be able to open it or maybe the links are dead?

If the blades are displaying pitting yet the rest of the knife is in good order it does suggest that some chemical change may be occurring, but check out that link before you do anything?
Click to expand...
I definitely could afford to read up on it some more. I've read quite a bit in the past, but haven't seen many pictures. Based on what I'm seeing now, I think out gassing may be the issue. As you point out, most of the knife is in good order. But, the more "exposed" steel is pitting. There's also a very small amount of discoloration on the bolsters. Less so on the pins/shield. But, it's still there. Furthermore, apparently F&R has quite the reputation for their celluloid.

Will Power said:
Getting the scales off without dismantling the knife would be easy enough, but best wear some mask etc to protect from cell particles or vapours.
Click to expand...
I was thinking I could probably just saw into them and pry them off pretty easily. Was a little worried about damaging the liners, however. I'll have to look into this more. Maybe if I find someone to recover, they will have advice for getting the covers off.
 
Perhaps drill near a pin to generate a crack then pry off? It's a pity to lose such nice looking handles though, getting a recover with something like the acrylic GEC used to use for their Dead Skunk handles might be rewarding though.
 
try glennbad glennbad He is one of the best.

Glennbad is a baaaad man

I sent the Glennbad an old Imperial Barlow recently to have the covers replaced on it, while he had it in his possession I caught a wild hair and decided to get him to rework a TL-29 for good measure, since I haven't bought a new knife in while (a month and a half according to She Who Must be...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
I don't know if his books are open.
 
Will Power said:
Perhaps drill near a pin to generate a crack then pry off? It's a pity to lose such nice looking handles though, getting a recover with something like the acrylic GEC used to use for their Dead Skunk handles might be rewarding though.
Click to expand...
That's a good idea! Probably better than trying to saw a crack into them to pry them off 😅 They are quite nice covers, though. And, I'm open to just about anything recover-wise. But, I do think some new covers could take this knife to another level. I have no intentions of selling it. Just putting it to use! So, keeping the original covers isn't all that important to me. I'd rather have the knife than a pile of rusty dust!

afishhunter said:
try glennbad glennbad He is one of the best.

Glennbad is a baaaad man

I sent the Glennbad an old Imperial Barlow recently to have the covers replaced on it, while he had it in his possession I caught a wild hair and decided to get him to rework a TL-29 for good measure, since I haven't bought a new knife in while (a month and a half according to She Who Must be...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
I don't know if his books are open.
Click to expand...
I have seen his work and am really impressed. I was researching him before the podcast debuted... Now that it has released I can't imagine he's hurting for more work! Not that he needed the podcast for publicity or anything. His work speaks for itself and I imagine people are reaching out to him all the time.

🤞 Fingers crossed. I'll reach out and see what can be done. If I can get these original covers off, I don't mind having to wait a year or two or more if need be.
 
Using a drill larger than the pin heads, in a drill press, I drill the heads off the pins carefully! The covers then fall off!! Saves the knife without harming anything until recovering!!
 
waynorth said:
Using a drill larger than the pin heads, in a drill press, I drill the heads off the pins carefully! The covers then fall off!! Saves the knife without harming anything until recovering!!
Click to expand...
This makes too much sense 😂 Of course, that would be the most proper way to do it!! Duh! I, unfortunately, do not own a drill press. But, my neighbor who helps me with a lot of stuff almost certainly has one. I'll have to check with him and see if we can get just the heads drilled off of those pins. Then, the covers should slide right off!

PointyThings said:
Sadly, I always place Fighting Rooster celluloid knives in 2 categories:
--Already outgassing
--Will soon be outgassing
Click to expand...
This is my first ever F&R knife. Might even be my first german knife! I knew it was celluloid when I bought it, and was already factoring in the cost to recover into things. Granted, I honestly have no idea how much a recover costs. I've never had anything custom ever done on a knife before. Guess there's always a first for everything!

black mamba said:
I've had the same experience! ☹️
Click to expand...
That is unfortunate!! I mainly bought this one because I don't know of too many factories that made the Irish Jack / Irish Congress pattern. Especially at an affordable price. I know GEC made them a while ago, but they are quite expensive on the secondary market. This one was about as much as a Case knife, brand new. So, not all that bad in my opinion. I think with some new covers on it, it could turn out to be a real looker! I was also quite impressed that the Fight'n Rooster on the main blade is stamped and not etched. A cool knife for sure! Just have to get this out gassing issue taken care of 😖
 
Last edited:
Defintely showing signs. In Fight'n Roosters, the 1st place I see it show is discoloring of the shield, and starting to tarnish along the edge where the bolsters touch the handles. After that, the blades. Take the other's advice and get rid of those handles.
 
lithicus said:
This makes too much sense 😂 Of course, that would be the most proper way to do it!! Duh! I, unfortunately, do not own a drill press. But, my neighbor who helps me with a lot of stuff almost certainly has one. I'll have to check with him and see if we can get just the heads drilled off of those pins. Then, the covers should slide right off!


This is my first ever F&R knife. Might even be my first german knife! I knew it was celluloid when I bought it, and was already factoring in the cost to recover into things. Granted, I honestly have no idea how much a recover costs. I've never had anything custom ever done on a knife before. Guess there's always a first for everything!


That is unfortunate!! I mainly bought this one because I don't know of too many factories that made the Irish Jack / Irish Congress pattern. Especially at an affordable price. I know GEC made them a while ago, but they are quite expensive on the secondary market. This one was about as much as a Case knife, brand new. So, not all that bad in my opinion. I think with some new covers on it, it could turn out to be a real looker! I was also quite impressed that the Fight'n Rooster on the main blade is stamped and not etched. A cool knife for sure! Just have to get this out gassing issue taken care of 😖
Click to expand...

Fighting Rooster made some interesting patterns. It's a shame the celluloid they used was either poorly formulated or cured improperly. The celluloid outgassing even affects many of their bone and stag patterns because FR collectors often stored their celluloid FR knives with the bone and stag versions.
 
waynorth said:
Using a drill larger than the pin heads, in a drill press, I drill the heads off the pins carefully! The covers then fall off!! Saves the knife without harming anything until recovering!!
Click to expand...
This ^^^^
You could even use a dremel and a bur to grind down the tip of the pins... then, as Charly says, the scales should just lift off, easy-peasy. Get that nasty stuff away from the knife asap.... 😁
What are you thinking about going back with? Ebony? Osage? Even bone? Enquiring minds....
 
Definitely remove the covers first, then start to look for someone to recover them. The knife can hang out until you find someone so the knife won’t get damaged any more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top