Is this normal?

If a maker keeps me informed about the situation I do not have a problem with reasonable delays. If I heard nothing from the maker as to why the delivery was being delayed I would contact him to get an answer. I also don't like to be a pest, but I also want my knife and feel that an explanation for the hold up is something I deserve.

If the maker has good reasons for being late then so be it. If not, then I have to decide if I want to wait any longer. If I feel I am being brushed off I will cancel the order immediately and do my business elsewhere.

Keith.

[This message has been edited by Keith Montgomery (edited 03-07-2001).]
 
Glad I came across this post. Helps alot when I have to agonize about calling the maker about an overdue order.

Red

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"Praise not the day until evening has come;a sword until it is tried; ice until it has been crossed; beer until it has been drunk" - Viking proverb
 
Gee! I must be a pretty patient guy on waiting almost six years for my CF1 from a knifemaker that is semi-retired.

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Ed Woo
 
This has been stated previously in this thread but to me it is worth repeating;
Communication (both ways) between the Maker and the Customer is vital.

I have dealt with a few Makers and the following is based on my limited experience;

While almost all of the Knife Orders/Repairs that I have experienced were positive there were a couple that I feel were unsatisfactory. There were two Makers that I had a very difficult time conducting business with, due in no small part to Poor Communication. ie. After a project dealine had passed I sent a cordial email (approx every other week) to inquire about the status, these emails were either ignored or were answered with a 1 or 2 sentence reply which contained no real detail. The way that I found closure after these deals was that as soon as I received the knives in question I Sold Them. Nor will I purchase another of these Makers knives today.

I feel that when you Order from a Maker you are in part helping him or her to succeed and you are showing your support for their talent. Perhaps this is a bit much, but before I decide to collect several pieces of a specific Makers works I ask myself if I Respect that individual as a person, and this may be based on interaction that I have had with them in the past. All this is just my $.02
 
Lots of good thoughts here…I agree with virtually everything that’s been said. I should probably clarify my earlier posting: on the whole I have been extremely pleased with the dealings I’ve had with various knifemakers…these relationships are one of the most satisfying parts of my affinity for sharp, pointy things
smile.gif
. I have dealt with several of the makers that have posted here and I’ve always been quite satisfied with their efforts to keep me apprised of the status of my projects. It certainly wasn’t my intent to impugn the business practices any maker or to suggest that a lack of communication is some sort of pervasive problem in the custom cutlery community. I was just trying to get a sense of what level of interaction is “typical” between customers and makers. I think that most of us realize that knifemaking, like most other creative endeavors, does not lend itself to inflexible schedules. I have absolutely no problem waiting for a custom knife, but it’s always a nice touch when the maker makes a special effort to notify the customer when delivery schedules slip…although I do understand that it may not always be feasible in every case.
 
I agree that communication is the key. These are as Jerry said, not life and death needs. But I have been in the situation where emails go unanswered for months, snail mail too. Promised delivery long past, when finally I was able to communicate, I was told the wait was even longer now. This seemed to be poor planning on the makers part and I regretfully cancelled the order. Maker was relieved I think.
At any rate, it's good to see the subject being dicussed in a nice two way conversation.

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Buck Collectors Club Member # 572
Dedicated ELU
Knifeknut(just ask my wife)
Sebenzanista
 
As a maker I feel that I am working for the buyer. If a maker contacts the buyer and lets him know that the project will run overdue he should give an outside estimate not a "will be done tomorrow"answer just to appease the customer.
Also as a maker you know if things are running over due well in advance of the delivery date. Sending a e-mail will not be that big of a time waister and it will let the customer know how much you appreciate there business. But on the other hand **** happens and it is up to the customer to decide if the maker is up frount or not.
On the other hand, I have the customers that e-mail me every 3rd day to see "how things are going". After the 5th e-mail I get a little pissed and refuse to waist time and I have told customers this and that I will contact them when the project is compleated.
I am sorry but I am just a up frount type of guy and say it how it is. There are inconsiderate makers and there are also rude customers. I am lucky so far not to have met either on this forum.
The bottom line is COMMUNICATE!!!!!
Some delays are unavoidable,lost parcels, injuries, broken equipment. Don't use them as excuses be honist both ways.

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Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html
 
Well I am in the same Boat. I put a $1200 deposit on one knife and $700 on another. This was about a year ago. Both were to be ready months ago. One was due by September, the other by the end of Jan. I have called each maker about once every 3 months. I am getting to the point of wanting my money back. It makes me very unwilling to give any deposit to any maker. I know makers have to make a living that's why I went ahead and did the deposits. Deposits were not required but they both said it sure would help them. it also helps me to pay as I go. Both of them have been around for a long time(25yrs & 30 yrs), both are full time makers. I must confess I am loosing intrest in the knives and starting to wonder if my money is gone. Any advice. I am not sure what to do. Do I set a deadline and get a half/ass knife or do I say I want my money and nothing else. So you know I do have a few others being made and have had no problems so far. The funny part is the guys on scheuld are the ones with the longest wait time. I know it takes time but to say 3 or 4 months and now it's a year plus that don't work. Ok yall set me straight.
ed
 
Another person I talk to said it was his opinion that a major 'shake-up' in the knife world is overdue, and should happen soon. I think he is right. My reasoning for agreeing is as follows.

I will say first, that MOST of the makers are generally fine people, and when they promise a knife, you will get it on or near the date stated.

Now, the makers (most folks know which makers) who pull the crap mentioned in this thread probably got themselves in over thier head purely by accident to start with. However, they grow comfortable with the situation for one reason, WE PUT UP WITH IT. Folks complain about it time and time again, but what does the maker care as no matter what, people continue to order by the truck load. Most other businesses would go under pretty fast with that type of service, but makers generally dont have to worry about it because of peoples rabid desires to have thier knives.

The person above who said they put up a 1200 dollar deposit a year ago because the maker said it would sure help him out may have just lost his 1200. Being as the knife is WAY late, chances are pretty fair that your money has long since been spent.

It seems that SOME makers dont like to be bothered with 'hey, wheres my knife?'. Now, I agree you shouldnt nag every other day, but on the other hand, a maker should keep you updated if delivery is nearing and hes not gonna make it.

One thing I have seen is this. A person orders a knife. The date is here, or past. The customer emails and calls with no response from the maker. Customer comes on the forum and says, 'hey, this maker wont answer me and my knife os overdue'. The customer is then attacked for being an insensitive boob, and that the maker must have a good reason. Besides, the customer is told that Mr. Makers knives are great, so you should be thrilled that he is even willing to make you a knife. Thats a bad way to look at it. Some makers have forgotten how a business relationship is supposed to work.

Cusom knives have been around for a while, but the last few years have seen a real explosion in popularity. After the 'fad' dies down, the makers who fancy themselves 'KnifeGods' who could care less if they get your knife to you or not, will soon find themselves looking for work in another field. The makers who have continued to act with honor and treat the collectors with respect will continue to thrive and be around for years to come.

The message is this. Makers who contiue the same stall tactics, and poor business practices, your days are numbered.



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Richard Todd - Digital knife photography
icq 61363141
My WebSite
Do your site a favor, get quality digital images!!!
New photos added!!!
 
Wow!

When I started this thread, I did not expect to receive nearly as much feedback as I have received. It's good to know that I am not alone in my frustration.

As I have mentioned I am not loosing any money here. What I decided to do is stop communicating with that maker. I will definitely not order anything from him ever again and if asked about him, I'll mention this exerpience. As for the knife that is currently on order: I am very curious if he ever recalls it. I may e-mail him on the anniversary of the order to find out if he still remembers me and my order.
 
Many very good points have been made, and I just want to restate one of them: Communication. In any relationship, business or personal, honest communication is KEY. If I'm not getting honest communication I eventually conclude that the other party is full of s**t and I move on. If I stay in this situation and allow someone to take advantage of me then that's my fault.
 
One little thing that I do on special ordered items is to TRY to e-mail the customer a photo of the work in progress. A picture is worth a thousand words.
I agree with the idea of deposits on one of a kind and "special" stuff but I don't know about taking deposits on standard items, I could always sell the knife to someone.

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Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html
 
I've have a few knives made over the last several years.

I'm batting a very high average on makers making their estimated knife delivery date (EKDD)
biggrin.gif
.

As far as tardiness.....generally, I've had to make massive efforts to get "late delivery makers" to respond with just simple mutterings! Don't get me wrong. I'm like most and have the utmost respect for these makers (hell, we're ordering their knives!) and don't "pester" the dog dooo out of them (in hopes of not pissing them off or lookin' or feelin' like the bad guy).

But, man.............it can be painful ! Order a knife - - > Get a (EKDD) - - > 6 months after the (EKDD) - - > Nothing! Pretty disappointing to say the least.....

On the other hand I've been pretty lucky.... I've had some extremely good experiences with makers getting the goods to me "exactly" when promised !

No.....the good ones still don't out weigh the late ones!
wink.gif

 
Could the Knifemakers Guild, ABS, PKA or other knifemaking organization be another resource to seek good advice from?

One might think these organizations would be concerned about this issue if it involved one of their members.

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Tom Anderson
Hand Crafted Knives
 
My post above should not be misconstrued as a "call to arms" in which everybody who has been waiting past their promised delivery date should contact one of the organizations and gripe. My intent was to point out that asking representatives of these organizations for suggestions regarding this subject might prove beneficial.

I'd also like to make some clarifications for anyone who thinks I'm "taking sides."

I've already stated that knifemaking is a business for some folks and they should treat it as such. There are obligations involved when a business person takes an order for something. Any local small business bureau can help you understand the aspects and obligations of being in business.

The IMPORTANT point I am going to stress now is that common courtesy would alleviate many of these problems. I know deliveries can be delayed for a number of reasons. If someone knows that a delivery will be late, wouldn't it be common courtesy to let the customer know?

It's simple if you keep a list of who ordered what and when, along with the promised delivery dates. You could keep an eye on those promised delivery dates and contact any customer whose knife (or knives) might not be finished by those dates.

I fully realize deliveries can be delayed by unforseen events. I just waited a month to get my new air compressor delivered. This affected my delivery schedule. So, I contacted those people whose knives might be delivered late because of this. They ALL appreciated that fact that I contacted them! And, it only took an hour or two to call them (about as long as writing the posts I've made in this thread!)

Have I delivered knives on the initial due date every time? No. Have I made an attempt to tell customers I might be late for one reason or another when their promised delivery date approached? Yes.

It's as simple as that.

I'm both a knifemaker and collector. I realize no maker likes to be pestered and most customers don't like pestering makers. That's common courtesy, too.


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Tom Anderson
Hand Crafted Knives

[This message has been edited by Tom Anderson (edited 03-10-2001).]
 
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