- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 248
I admit I wasn't around when this forum started, and there are a few things I do not understand that I hope someone can explain to me.
And that is what wrong with Stewart Taylor buying Schrade, and why is it everyone is concerned about "subliminal efforts" on those knives.
Stewart has been in knives since the 1970's, and I've known him and dealt with him throughout those years, as Taylor Cutlery, Elkhorn, Buckcreek, Smith & Wesson, and now Schrade. He has imported knives since day one, and he has assembled some knives in the US. And for those worrying about the balance of trade I know for several years he was one of the leading EXPORTERS of US made knives to Japan and other overseas dealers.
I don't think anyone was happy with the demise of Schrade in their 100th year of business. It is a tragedy. However, Taylor had absolutely nothing to do with that. If there should be anger and resentment it should be directed toward the management who tanked the company, or those taking too much money out of it, or the workers wanting to maintain their wages from prior more prosperous years, or the economy changing, or 911 reducing companies giving knives as premiums which was a part of Schrade's business. There is plenty of blame to go around in that department, but Taylor wasn't involved.
What he did was at an open auction at which anyone could go in and lay down their money and take the trademarks home, he wanted them more than anyone else and had the wherewithall to make the bid stick. In my opinion in the world of knives he deserves quite a bit of respect for pulling the deal off.
At his facility in Kingsport, TN he has what I would estimate at 40 or more Americans working. If he had decided to take the money he used to buy Schrade and instead put that money in real estate (in which he is a serious player in his hometown) there would be less people in Kingsport working in the field of cutlery.
Should he have tried to reestablish the manufacturing facility in Ellenville and continue making knives there? I've been in this game for over 30 years and have studied the rise and fall of the knife business since the 18th century. In my opinion anyone trying to take Schrade and make knives in the US under the set up in Ellenville was being foolish. It would not have worked. If it would have worked the Schrade people would have made it work. Or ask the folks at Camillus how it would have worked.
Incidentally, the underbidder for the Schrade marks was a company totally owned by overseas owners.
Taylor brought in Schrade knives from China. As does SOG, Spyderco, Buck, Columbia River Knife and Tool, Frost, Benchmade, and a great many others.
Any major manufacturer making knives in the US today who is not bringing in at least some patterns from China is going out of business and doesn't even know it.
In the working factories in the US the blades are ground on German made grinders and in many cases using Japanese and German steel. In China the knives are ground on German made grinders using Japanese and German steel.
Both systems are using computer controlled CAD systems to direct the machining. The big difference is the labor, which I have heard is 25 cents an hour in China.
Do I like that situation, of course not. But I am not in denial about it. It is the reality of the marketplace at the moment. I was around when Parker started bringing in knives from Japan and heard collectors whine about Japanese made knives --and today some of those same collectors have built collections of Parker-Frost and Parker knives from Japan, and pay over $100 for some patterns. Will China knives ever get to that point? I don't know. I do know enough not to say for certain they won't.
I am a knife collector, and I like knives. That is first and primary. The country they are made in is a consideration, but a secondary consideration for me. If they are quality knives I have no problem with enjoying them, and frankly some of the China quality under a lot of different brand names is impressive.
Now that is not to say that anyone should collect Schrade knives made in China. It is to say that if someone chooses to it should be their own business and should not be held up to ridicule just because you might prefer to collect something else. I have some good friends that are active buyers of mint peachseed bone Schrade Cut.'s with etched blades, but wouldn't touch anything with a delrin handle. Again that is their option.
But to my original title to this thread...it is certainly within reason that the founders of this forum have the right to restrict its focus as they see fit.
However if that is the fact then this forum is mis-named, because Schrade, Imperial, Uncle Henry, and Old Timer are trademarks owned by Stewart Taylor. He put several million dollars down on the table and bought his ticket to the dance. If this forum is restricted to Schrade USA made knives it should say so in the title.
If one does not wish to buy China-made Schrades it is really simple. Don't buy them. No one is twisting anyone's arm. But to resent or ignore the fact that Schrade knives and the history of Schrade knives goes on, albeit made in China is putting one's head in the sand. (By the way I saw a fixed blade with Schrade marks that will be made in the US by Schrade and sold exclusively through Phil Mann. It was on display at SHOT Show--and Taylor Brands also had prototypes of new Schrade autos for those qualified to buy them).
In my conversations with Stewart about Schrade and his plans I've found him to be supportive and encouraging for the collecting of all Schrade knives (including the older USA made ones).
I think if some of the posters in this forum would quit making the snide quips about China-made Schrades you may discover Stewart could be very much a friend to the members of this forum.
But just like buying or not buying Schrade made China knives, that choice is totally up to the individual.
And that is what wrong with Stewart Taylor buying Schrade, and why is it everyone is concerned about "subliminal efforts" on those knives.
Stewart has been in knives since the 1970's, and I've known him and dealt with him throughout those years, as Taylor Cutlery, Elkhorn, Buckcreek, Smith & Wesson, and now Schrade. He has imported knives since day one, and he has assembled some knives in the US. And for those worrying about the balance of trade I know for several years he was one of the leading EXPORTERS of US made knives to Japan and other overseas dealers.
I don't think anyone was happy with the demise of Schrade in their 100th year of business. It is a tragedy. However, Taylor had absolutely nothing to do with that. If there should be anger and resentment it should be directed toward the management who tanked the company, or those taking too much money out of it, or the workers wanting to maintain their wages from prior more prosperous years, or the economy changing, or 911 reducing companies giving knives as premiums which was a part of Schrade's business. There is plenty of blame to go around in that department, but Taylor wasn't involved.
What he did was at an open auction at which anyone could go in and lay down their money and take the trademarks home, he wanted them more than anyone else and had the wherewithall to make the bid stick. In my opinion in the world of knives he deserves quite a bit of respect for pulling the deal off.
At his facility in Kingsport, TN he has what I would estimate at 40 or more Americans working. If he had decided to take the money he used to buy Schrade and instead put that money in real estate (in which he is a serious player in his hometown) there would be less people in Kingsport working in the field of cutlery.
Should he have tried to reestablish the manufacturing facility in Ellenville and continue making knives there? I've been in this game for over 30 years and have studied the rise and fall of the knife business since the 18th century. In my opinion anyone trying to take Schrade and make knives in the US under the set up in Ellenville was being foolish. It would not have worked. If it would have worked the Schrade people would have made it work. Or ask the folks at Camillus how it would have worked.
Incidentally, the underbidder for the Schrade marks was a company totally owned by overseas owners.
Taylor brought in Schrade knives from China. As does SOG, Spyderco, Buck, Columbia River Knife and Tool, Frost, Benchmade, and a great many others.
Any major manufacturer making knives in the US today who is not bringing in at least some patterns from China is going out of business and doesn't even know it.
In the working factories in the US the blades are ground on German made grinders and in many cases using Japanese and German steel. In China the knives are ground on German made grinders using Japanese and German steel.
Both systems are using computer controlled CAD systems to direct the machining. The big difference is the labor, which I have heard is 25 cents an hour in China.
Do I like that situation, of course not. But I am not in denial about it. It is the reality of the marketplace at the moment. I was around when Parker started bringing in knives from Japan and heard collectors whine about Japanese made knives --and today some of those same collectors have built collections of Parker-Frost and Parker knives from Japan, and pay over $100 for some patterns. Will China knives ever get to that point? I don't know. I do know enough not to say for certain they won't.
I am a knife collector, and I like knives. That is first and primary. The country they are made in is a consideration, but a secondary consideration for me. If they are quality knives I have no problem with enjoying them, and frankly some of the China quality under a lot of different brand names is impressive.
Now that is not to say that anyone should collect Schrade knives made in China. It is to say that if someone chooses to it should be their own business and should not be held up to ridicule just because you might prefer to collect something else. I have some good friends that are active buyers of mint peachseed bone Schrade Cut.'s with etched blades, but wouldn't touch anything with a delrin handle. Again that is their option.
But to my original title to this thread...it is certainly within reason that the founders of this forum have the right to restrict its focus as they see fit.
However if that is the fact then this forum is mis-named, because Schrade, Imperial, Uncle Henry, and Old Timer are trademarks owned by Stewart Taylor. He put several million dollars down on the table and bought his ticket to the dance. If this forum is restricted to Schrade USA made knives it should say so in the title.
If one does not wish to buy China-made Schrades it is really simple. Don't buy them. No one is twisting anyone's arm. But to resent or ignore the fact that Schrade knives and the history of Schrade knives goes on, albeit made in China is putting one's head in the sand. (By the way I saw a fixed blade with Schrade marks that will be made in the US by Schrade and sold exclusively through Phil Mann. It was on display at SHOT Show--and Taylor Brands also had prototypes of new Schrade autos for those qualified to buy them).
In my conversations with Stewart about Schrade and his plans I've found him to be supportive and encouraging for the collecting of all Schrade knives (including the older USA made ones).
I think if some of the posters in this forum would quit making the snide quips about China-made Schrades you may discover Stewart could be very much a friend to the members of this forum.
But just like buying or not buying Schrade made China knives, that choice is totally up to the individual.
