Is this the Highest Level of Polish You Can Get on Stabilized Wood Scales?

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dzlvs8

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So I followed the same process on each of these scales on the middle two knives (except for the top knife which I didn't make. ..but I did polish the blade using the same process as the other knives scales. My process was: Sand to 600 grit and then use some metal polish and a dremel buffing wheel. The bottom knife was only sanded to 600 grit and then NOT polished, but soaked in BLO. I assumed that the problem with using this metal polish on the scales is that it would heat up the wood too much or take off too much material, but I don't think that either the case. The bottom two knives were rubbed out with old english oil and a buffing wheel (with all excess removed) right before the pics were taken. The two wood knives have also been hit with furniture paste wax in the past and it also produced the same finish as what is in the pics.

So my question is, is the second knife from the bottom (that has been sanded to 600 grit and then buffed with metal polish) as glossy as I can get the wood? I have seen wood handled knives that have a high gloss and I am wondering if those have a coating on them.

If I can get glossier (which I assume I can) I wouldn't think it's the polish since the soft bone and heat treated steel both polished up super glossy. Do I need to go to a higher grit sand paper before polishing the wood? I know that some people go as high as 1200 grit, but ???

NOTE: In the second knife from the bottom the black areas (probably stuff that was injected into the stabilized wood) is glossy, the rest of the handle, not so much.

I would like to get glossier wood scales, but I am not sure if what I am missing is higher grit sand paper or better polish specific for the task. Any help would be appreciated.

If you can't tell in the pics,
The top knife has a mirror finish blade. (I didn't make this knife)
The second knife down has an ultra glossy water buffalo horn handle.
The third from the top has a semi-gloss finish with bits of high gloss on the tiny black areas of the wood (and high gloss pins). The black areas are not burnt, its the dye.
The fourth knife down has a satin, but smooth as butter finish.
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I sanded my maple top work bench to 600 grit, soaked it in BLO, and then hit it with furniture paste wax and it was finished at a high gloss. ....so what's up with these knives?
 
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600 grit? You should go higher. I stop at 2000 grit, then use denim to buff it up.
 
I'm just getting around to starting the handles on my first few blades, but I have worked with a lot of wood in my life. Really the material doesn't matter though. If you want a higher polish you go with the highest grit possible. I'm a fan of a satin finish on blades so as far as I know I don't want to go above 800 there (unsure as I said I'm only on my first few blades), but like tryppyr said I would be going into the thousands with my handles with out a doubt.
 
Hmmm. It doesn't make sense that going to 600 grit on metal is good enough before polishing, but you need to go higher for wood than plastic or steel. I really don't want to have to go that high. It will change my process for making knives a lot. and MAN that's a lot of extra sanding. I like finishing my handles while they are on the knife, so just sanding the ricasso and handle to 600 and then taping the ricasso for polishing is easy and working well. Oh well.

I still don't understand why my maple butcher block work bench, and would is glossy after 600 but not the stabilized maple burl handle scales.
 
There are a few things to keep in mind.

First off, comparing any kind of natural horn/antler to any natural wood (other than the REALLY dense oily species like African Blackwood) is going to leave you frustrated. Most horn is easy to get a high luster on, even with questionable prep work prior to buffing.

Another thing, is the species of wood you're working with. Many woods, in their natural, dry state, won't really want to go to a super high luster.

If you have stabilized wood, then that's another story, as the polymer that's added to the wood makes it very easy to get a high gloss.


I can't tell for sure what your woods are... that bottom one looks like either stained Maple Burl, or a Walnut burl. Either wood will go to a much higher luster if you give it some help. Linseed oil is okay for this, but IMHO, Birchwood Casey's Tru Oil, will work much better.

You need to sand the wood with the Tru Oil wet at a lower grit (around 320X) to get the open grain to seal up. Then let it cure for a few, and then move on up through the grits.

600X is pretty coarse when talking about finishing a knife handle. I typically take mine to at least 1200X.


I'm also curious what this metal polish is that you're talking about? Are you talking about a buffing compound? Or something like Mother's or Flitz?
 
dzlvs8 said:
Hmmm. It doesn't make sense that going to 600 grit on metal is good enough before polishing, but you need to go higher for wood than plastic or steel. I really don't want to have to go that high. It will change my process for making knives a lot. and MAN that's a lot of extra sanding. I like finishing my handles while they are on the knife, so just sanding the ricasso and handle to 600 and then taping the ricasso for polishing is easy and working well. Oh well.

I still don't understand why my maple butcher block work bench, and would is glossy after 600 but not the stabilized maple burl handle scales.
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I hand sand all my stabilized woods, and pretty much all other handle materials I use, and I go to at least 1000 grit. Usually higher. Also as you stated "600 then polish is fine for metal". I would bet to differ as would many other here likely. A 600 grit hand rub can be very nice. 600 then crazy on the buffer usually looks like skipped steps and heavy buffing, not a real polish.
 
Your butcher block is not stabilized and probably uniform grain and not a burl or something. So at 600 grit it can absorb oils and waxes, then swell a bit, smooth together and buff up. Stabilized wood is like plastic. Take a piece of clear plexiglass and zand it with 600 grit sandpaper and try to buff it (without overheating and melting it.) You won't be able to see through it. Take it up to 1500-2000 and step up through compounds and you will buff it clear.

And 600 on metal and then polish is no where near polished to a mirror shine IMO.

Burl source had a good rather quick way to finish out either stabilized or natural wood on here the other day. Search for that...

This is stabilized and dyed sycamore sanded to 1500 and just a quick buff and finish wax with microsuede:
ca35c09ae0870eedbbc710301a09f358.jpg


Happy polishing!!

-Eric
 
dzlvs8 said:
I really don't want to have to go that high. It will change my process for making knives a lot. and MAN that's a lot of extra sanding. I like finishing my handles while they are on the knife, so just sanding the ricasso and handle to 600 and then taping the ricasso for polishing is easy and working well. Oh well.
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That's your choice. You asked how to get the handles glossier, and that's how I do it. BTW, I never stop at 600 grit on the metal either. I wouldn't dream of stopping on metal before 1200 grit (with an intermediate stop at 800 grit), and almost always go to 2000 there as well. I also never buff my blades, because "mirror polish" isn't my target, but mirror-like shine with a light luster is my target. I want the user to be able to see there are no scratches or flaws in the blade.

Anyway, we each make our own choices about how to achieve the quality we want.
 
1200 grit doesn't take much longer than 600 grit. The lower grit steps take more time proportionally than high grit I find. With good paper, it could take all of 15 minutes longer to get a 1200 finish than 600 on a lot of knives.

I do use 600 a lot too though. I find a 600 grit handle well sanded will buff out nicely with pink compound on many materials, particularly micarta.
 
Part of the problem is soaking in the boiled linseed oil.
That works ok for a hammer handle but not a knife unless you want dull and muddy.
My advice for the next time using the bottom knife as an example.
When you get to about 400 grit fill all the checks and small voids with thin CA glue.
It might take multiple coats to fill them .
Then sand away any surface glue.
Then finish sanding past 1000 grit
Then use an oil blend like danish or tru-oil and apply multiple coats until it looks good.

BLO is an oil that does not harden. You need to use an oil blend that will harden and fill the small pores.

Another thing about stabilized wood. Wood stabilized by K&G will be different than WSSI and both will be much much better than ebay stuff.
and...different wood varieties will finish differently.
 
As Mark implies, super glue is your friend when it comes to stabilized wood.
Joe Mandt.jpg
 
This is all GREAT information. I am glad there were a few explanations for why the different types of wood finish differently. To answer the question about the polish I have been using it is just some Blue Magic Chrome and Aluminum polish that I used to use on my tail pipe tips. lol. I know I shouldn't expect much out of it, but after it polished up my water buffalo horn scales so well, I became confused. To answser the question about the wood types of my knives in the pics, the bottom two knives are both stabilized maple burl. One is from usa knife maker and the other is from a guy in Muskegon, MI who only makes handle blanks for buck and AG Russel and sells some "scraps" at one or two knife shows.

A side note, I purchased some turquoise maple burl scales that were on the higher end of pricing and they were absolutely terrible. The dye barely went into the wood. Thus I think the stabilization is probably terrible. Unless ordering from reputable dealers who only deal in stabilized wood and who allow you to pick the piece you want, it's too much of a craps shoot. If anyone has any recommendations on suppliers of stabilized wood, I would be curious to check them out. I have seen the few that are on blade forums (e.g. Dream Burls). My knife making just hasn't been up to the quality that I would like where I should be purchasing $60 handles!

Well it looks like I may need to start sanding to higher grits. I never thought about how much quicker it is between steps with the higher grits. The one concern I have is that I run into a lot of trouble taking fully shaped scales off of a knife to polish them, and then put them back on and glue them. I still will plan on epoxying the scales on before shaping. I have found it VERY easy to polish without hitting the ricasso just by doing one side at a time and taping of the ricasso with simple masking tape.

My issue with that is, I am unsure of what type of finish I will have on the ricasso if I sand it to 1200 grit. I was concerned that it would be too polished, just with the sand paper, but it sounds like that may not be the case. Any examples of blade finishes at 1200 grit or higher would be nice to see.

In regards to using the BLO, it sounds like I will not be able to get the bottom two knifes to a high gloss polish since they have already been soaked in the BLO??? I know I have asked a lot of questions in this post. Feel free to answer any if you would like, but anyway, I think that my main, original questions have been answered and ultimately I am going to have to invest in both higher grit sand paper AND some tru oil. THANKS, now I will be prepared for the next knife I create.
 
I would suggest trying out some of the stabilized wood from K&G.
If you like the dyed woods try out their dyed box elder. It is easy to work with and finish.
Then when you get good at your handles consider some of the more expensive woods.
 
Burl Source said:
I would suggest trying out some of the stabilized wood from K&G.
If you like the dyed woods try out their dyed box elder. It is easy to work with and finish.
Then when you get good at your handles consider some of the more expensive woods.
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hmmmmm...Maybe something like Burl Source woods???!?! I have my eye on a really nice piece that I see at $40. If I didn't already have more handle material than steel on hand I would buy it asap. I hope it doesn't get bought up before then! It's one of my favorite pieces of wood you have, and half the price of many!
 
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OK. I have taken some of the recommendations mentioned above with my new knife with stabilized wood handles. I realized that people were right is saying it doesn't take that much longer to get from 600 grit to 1500 grit.

What I did:
I sanded to 400 and then wet sanded with tru oil because I swore I read somewhere that wet sanding tru oil was a good idea. Needless to say, I had a mess of a muddy grayed handle and this was a light colored wood to begin with. AKA: A DISASTER I waited overnight for the true oil to dry and tried to sand it out. I got a lot of it, but not all of it. Acetone didn't do a thing since it was in the grain. It looks good enough now though. Sooooo...

I tried again and followed the correct process. sanded to 400 grit, then super glue coated it, then sanded up to 2000 grit. I am now using tru oil (0000 steel wool in between coats) and am on my 3rd coat and waiting for it to dry. I plan on doing at least one or two more coats, but as of now it already looks better than my best stabilized wood handled knife.

So my, hopefully last, question is what should I do once the tru oil finish has dried in order to keep the high gloss? Should I use my minwax furniture paste wax, just put some old english oil on it, meguiars car wax?!, or do nothing at all? Also, how long should I wait after the last coat to do this? Currently I have been recoating every two hours. Do I HAVE to wait longer before waxing it up?

btw, thanks for the help. There are many conflicting processes out on the internet. I like being able to come to a trusted source.
 
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Burnishing should be a part of most all wood handle finishing. If you keep in mind that wood is made up of layers of fibers burnishing makes since. Early in the finish process the radius of a 1/4'' brass rod can be used; as you work up through the grits a softer burnishing material can be used such as the an edge of 8 oz leather works well. When you are working with 1200 grit switch to folded denim. Burnishing lays the foundation for that beautiful luster that we all seek in the handles we finish.
 
I often take it to 600 grit then hit the buffing wheel.... the shine quickly comes :)
 
I buffed the first few handles I made. None since.

And for what it's worth, I dry sand to 2000 then burnish with denim.
 
tryppyr said:
I buffed the first few handles I made. None since.
.
Click to expand...

Why? What was the problem. Many of the very best makers buff their handles such as S.R. Johnson and the Loveless shop. If done correctly it brings a high luster.
 
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