Is this the lesson I learned about S30V?

G

guitarhead1

Joined
Dec 17, 2010
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I read the thread from the dude doing the rope cutting tests and want to know if I am inferring the right lesson. As far as decent steels, Aus 8, VG10, 154CM......S30V is just another in that line...nothing more? I thought Chris Reeve helped design this steel to be something special. I just bought what I thought was a hard use folder in S30V...a 5-11 tactical tanto first responder. I'm kinda confused. Everyone talks about this stuff chipping easily. How does it compare to my BM D2 or 154CM? What is the best hard use folder steel...Cold Steel's Aus 8? Is it tougher than other good steels? If I absolutely have to pry, will it hold up any better? Help!!
 
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30v is a decent stainless steel . but it wo'nt outcut d2 at 62 rockwell, however it's more stain resistant. s30 at 60 r.r. is a good performer but it wo'nt walk on water.
dennis
 
My fav hard use steels are 1075, 1055 and cv. I like the ability to sharpen on the fly with whatever is handy.
 
I believe you'll find that the aforementioned steels will all pale in comparison to Rosta-Frei steel. Just sayin'.
 
I think S30V done well, deserves more respect. I feel the biggest thing S30V has going against it is that it's been around a while and pretty common. However, I've heard a lot of good blade testers commend S30V for its edge retension and have heard some say it will cut and cut when done right.
 
Dorito Monk said:
I believe you'll find that the aforementioned steels will all pale in comparison to Rosta-Frei steel. Just sayin'.
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Must say ... I got a chuckle out of that! :D



In my experience S30v is a great steel. With a nice polished edge it cuts great, holds it and doesn't chip. For me AUS8 with similar sharpening techniques rolls fairly easy if it gets to thin. 154CM is great ... I really like it.
 
Dorito Monk, Rosta-Frei is definitely up there with S30v, D2, infini...you name it! I personally don't want to use the extreme term "pale in comparison".

Vin
 
Blade steel performance is a very subjective thing. The steel is only a part of the overall design - blade style, grind style, angle of grind, heat treat, finish, and competency of the person / machine putting the edge on the knife all come into play.

Also - what you use the knife for and how well you care for it plays a role.

I have had good luck with many different types of steel from several knife makers - but I always realize the steels limitations and my own limitations.

I like S30V and have had good luck with it.
 
guitarhead1 said:
I read the thread from the dude doing the rope cutting tests and want to know if I am inferring the right lesson. As far as decent steels, Aus 8, VG10, 154CM......S30V is just another in that line...nothing more? I thought Chris Reeve helped design this steel to be something special. I just bought what I thought was a hard use folder in S30V...a 5-11 tactical tanto first responder. I'm kinda confused. Everyone talks about this stuff chipping easily. How does it compare to my BM D2 or 154CM? What is the best hard use folder steel...Cold Steel's Aus 8? Is it tougher than other good steels? If I absolutely have to pry, will it hold up any better? Help!!
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For prying, I would say that blade geometry(mostly how thick the tip is) would matter more than the steel itself. For hard use, I think the typical heat treat(Rc 57-59) does great. It's only a select few who would heat treat it a little harder at Rc 60-62, which makes for a great slicer.

The datasheet I read claimed more toughness than D2, but that really depends on the heat treat.

Thus far I've been satisfied with the S30V in my ZT 0301, as it tends to roll rather than chip. Again, it really depends on the heat treat.

If you intend to regularly use your knife to pry with, I would suggest a nice fixed blade in 1095 steel, preferably in the same rough size as an XM-18. I believe ESEE offers some good choices there.
 
guitarhead1 said:
I read the thread from the dude doing the rope cutting tests and want to know if I am inferring the right lesson. As far as decent steels, Aus 8, VG10, 154CM......S30V is just another in that line...nothing more? I thought Chris Reeve helped design this steel to be something special. I just bought what I thought was a hard use folder in S30V...a 5-11 tactical tanto first responder. I'm kinda confused. Everyone talks about this stuff chipping easily. How does it compare to my BM D2 or 154CM? What is the best hard use folder steel...Cold Steel's Aus 8? Is it tougher than other good steels? If I absolutely have to pry, will it hold up any better? Help!!
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I have never had S30V chip on me personally and I have pushed it pretty hard.

S30V is a good steel, but tricky to HT due to the tempering process. If the process fails it will become chippy at around 60 RC.

Done correctly it's really an incredible steel at 60 RC and above.

Rockwell hardness will play a large roll on how well it holds an edge just like other steels. The harder it is the longer it will hold an edge up to ~62 RC.

Hardness will range from around 58 RC to 61 RC depending and 62 RC for some customs.
 
Love my Sage 2 with S30V. It holds an edge and I haven't had any problems with chipping. I think the chipping problems were when the steel was first introduced, most makers seem to be turning out excellent knives in this steel.

A knife isn't a prybar and shouldn't be expected to pry. I actually have found that I am taking more of a liking to some of the lesser steels. Since I got a Spyderco sharpmaker, I no longer have problems sharpening knives. While VG10 dulls more quickly, it sharpens more quickly too, and I find it easier than S30V to get a hairpopping sharp edge.

The problem is that many steels, especially when they are heattreated properly, are excellent performers. Asking what is the best steel is like asking what is the best food. everyone will have their favorite. and then it becomes the question of best how? In choosing a steel there will always be tradeoffs. Ever look at kitchen knives? They are thin blades because thin blades slice better than thick ones. Only an idiot would expect a paring knife to survive being rammed through a car hood. They make chisels that can be pounded through sheet metal all day but I wouldn't want to try to slice onions with one. It comes down to the right tool for the right job. The same thing holds true for the choices in knife steels. One steel might be better at holding an edge while another is better at handling the forces that occur when using it to pry. and then the question becomes what does the manufacturer heat treat it to? a higher hardness will usually mean it keeps a keener edge longer but it also means that the blade will be more brittle and prone to chipping.

I used to love thick blades because I loved their percieved toughness. Nowadays I like knives that can slice. I work in a warehouse so I cut open shrink wrapped pallets and cut cardboard regularly. It might be surprising to some, but my most used knife is a Spyderco Ladybug that I keep on my work keyring. I only pull out the much larger Sage 2 when the Ladybug gets dull. (about every other week or so.)

The best advice Ican give you is: don't worry about it. Learn to sharpen your knife and use it. if you find that you like to pry and want a virtually indestructable knife, save up and get a Busse Combat Knife, I couldn't imagine anything that I would ever do that could damage my ASH. On the other hand if you want some really great slicers that are like grandpa used to carry take a look at traditional knives. Your choices are almost limitless. If you are like most of us, we enjoy trying out new knives, and would shudder at the idea of having to limit our choices to just one.

Grizz
 
just out of curiously which knife makers/manufacturer have been known for producing chipping?

frequently I carry a ZT350 & SnG in s30v, so far both served me well, note that I have not abused them yet, mainly just everyday use. I think I did accidently banged my sng & my 350 tip onto a drywall once, pretty much no effect on both blades (some may argue that isn't even hard use, i agree, but I still haven't gotten the chance to put them through hell yet which I wish I won't end up in such kinda situation un-deliberately)

it will be interesting to know which manufacturers/makers others have experienced with that have chipping issues.
 
i have used knives in vg-10, s30v, aus8, 154cm, zdp189, cpm m4, 420hc and so on so forth. of the truly stainess steels cpm s30v as i have in 2 of my spyderco`s holds edge better than any of the rest with one exception, cpm m4 ...which isnt a stainless steel. the only reason i dont put zdp above it is imo it chips easy and very small chips in an otherwise sharp blade annoy me. id say that vg-10 and 154cm are very close to a tie but would give a nod to the vg-10 because its a prettier steel. cuts the same imo though. 420hc by buck imo is very close to those 2 as well. i think allot of it can be boiled down to heat treat and type of blade grind as well as what type of cutting is being done. aus8 has a following in lower priced knives, seems to be a decent steel, id put it a rung below 420 though, just cant seem to get ones ive used to hold an edge for a respectable amount of time. id put aus8 in the catagory of good for a light duty or occasional use. but i do know some have better luck with it , some of that might be a better heat treat.
best knife steel ive used to date though is cpm m4. dont care what u have now or love whatever, if i could wave a magic wand over my knife collection and turn them into only one steel that would be it.I still love s30v, its my favorite stainless.
 
s30v is a great all around steel. it doesnt really excel at any one category (edge retention, ease of sharpening, toughness, corrosion resistence, price) but its adequate at each one making it a very good all around knife blade steel. it pretty much sets the bar between good steels and super steels.

id put vg10, 154cm, s30v and d2 and in very similar rankings. some may be better at one thing, but they are all pretty much middle of the road steels. in that i mean the steels below them (440c, aus8, 420, and things like 13c26n and 8cr13mov, etc etc) are lower end steels and steels above it (s90v, zdp, m4, as well as the new carpetner steels, and some others) are more so 'exotic', high end materials.

and i know theres always going to be people that cite exceptions or have a good or bad experience with a certain knife steel, but for the most part thats the way it is.

but as others have said, theres a lot more that goes into it than just steel. heat treat, edge geometry, sharpening ability and other things that really affect how well a stell preforms, or is perceived to preform.
 
CHIPPING IS A MISSUSED TERM!!!!

Most of what many see is never a chip but a dent, deformation, nick, compression, roll. A chip is a failure in the metal that results in the steel structure to fracture. Please read the thread in my sig too get more data on the subject.

Now for S30V, PM steels especially CPM stainless bring a whole new meaning to edge retention and cutting performance. If you don't understand how they work though you could end up not liking how they hold a edge.

Wear resistance seems to be the main contributing factor to how and why the edges on these steels perform. Imagine if you will a fresh pointy jack hammer bit, in its first use you end up blunting that sharp tip but once that fine point is gone not much else happens and the bit is still very functional.

S30V works in a similar way but instead of blunting it gets what most of us like to call the chainsaw effect to the edge. Its not a steel that's known to hold a fine razor edge and actually tends to loose its razor edge rapidly in favor of a rough/toothy edge.

Compared to the other steels you listed it will cut the longest but for other duties the blade design and HT of the steel will factor in. Or in other words don't pry with a knife that you know won't take, if you question the abilities of any knife to perform a task then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
 
I have only one knife in s30v it apears to be avery very g00d steel ;however I must confess I have not given the knife a lot of real hard use'the knife is aBuck 110 with the bos heat treat.I also have another Buck with 154cm same heat treat also a very good knife Idont think there is aton of difference in the quality of the two knives.Like many other knife types I too beleive the heat treat is what realy sepeates the very good from the ok.chuck
 
Ive had S30V knives from pretty much every more or less common knifemaker. I would say that it is my favorite steel. The best 154cm I ever had was actually a Microtech Socom. My current EDC rotation consists of CRK S30V, CRK S35VN, Spyderco (Golden) S30V and Benchmade 154cm. My least favorite is the BM 154cm. I REALLY like a stainless steel, so that is a major contributing factor in my choice steel, so the finest steel I've ever used is Spyderco S90V... other than that, the next best steel I've used is Swamp Rats SR101.

Some of the hardest use I've put my Sebenza through was carving the top of 20 or so 1X6 boards for baseboards... it ate them for Breakfast and was ready for more. Between construction and BoatHouse work, My knives see use EVERY DAY. I find S30V to cut and cut and cut. Even when you can "see" the edge and it won't even come close to cutting paper more resistant materials are surprisingly easily cut. WHen the times comes to resharpen it's no biggie... although when I was a newbie to this IMO superior steel I could not get a great edge on it... but having "professional" sharpeners take WAAAAY more steel off the edge than I EVER would, I just HAD to learn. Now I'm good at it and I enjoy it... as long as I don't let it get tooooo dull.
 
S30V is not the same as AUS8, at all. In my experience, 154cm still isn't that close to S30V performance. People post junk against S30V on the internet due to how widely used it is, but it's widely used for a reason. It's not an easy steel to temper or finish, so there has to be another reason why it's so popular. Everyone likes having sprint run or rare steels, so S30V seems to get talked down on a lot. I've used it hard, and it's great steel. S30V can be absolutely fantastic, it depends on the manufacturer.
 
guitarhead1 said:
I read
I am inferring
154CM......S30V
I thought
I just bought
I'm kinda confused
I absolutely have to
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Well, S30V should be compared to CPM154 as it will have more wear resistance than 154CM (ATS-34) .. blah, blah, blah --- puke. :jerkit:

OK ENOUGH! It's time fellow forum members to educate yourself about blade geometry verses selecting the right knife steel for your particular type of application.

Start at this link:

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

"For example, it is possible to make a hard-use "tactical/utility" knife from ATS-34 (154CM). To make sure the ATS-34 will take the kind of stresses it might see in this environment, the edge might be left a bit thick (sacrificing cutting performance), or the hardness brought down a touch (sacrificing strength and wear resistance), or both. If the same maker moves to much-tougher S30V, he might be able to thin out the edge, thin out the entire knife, and raise the hardness, bringing up performance as a whole.

Moving to differentially-tempered 5160 might allow the maker to re-profile even more for performance. If we're talking about a fighter, moving from 1095 to 3V might allow the maker to make the knife much thinner, lighter, and faster, while significantly increasing cutting performance and maintaining edge integrity.

So to really take advantage of the higher-performance steel, we want the knifemaker to adjust the knife design to the steel, wherever he thinks it's appropriate. If a knifemaker offers the same knife in multiple steels, ask about what the characteristics are in each steel, and the how's and why's of where the design has changed to accomodate each steel offered."

ref: Knife Steel FAQ: Joe Talmadge, 2005

"Steel costs, great steel costs more; poor knife sharping skills -- priceless"
 
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