Is this true???

ohmyheckinslc

ohmyheckinslc

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I saw this in an ebay listing:
eBay said:
Benchmade M&W AXIS mechanism can be used ambidextrously and can withstand 800 lbs. of force without compromising or jamming
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Is this true? I find myself skeptical, as I've never seen these numbers from Benchmade. The knife in question was a Blackwater/Benchmade knife... is that one just especially stout?
 
Those numbers were first posted with the BM5000 Presidio Auto Axis. Doesn't say if they're foot-pounds, inch-pounds, or lightyear-pounds. What's more important than a lock's best-scenario strength is its reliability and the axis lock has it in spades.
 
I don't know about pounds of force, but I can use all my axis folders easily with both hands .. .
 
I would say its VERY strong, but 800 lbs...Hmmm if thats true then it puts cold steels locks to shame since their "famous" videos show their folders locks holding up 100 - 150 lbs...Im sure the locks failed with a little more weight off camera...Im not saying tis not possible Im just saying Im skeptical too...Anyone know the answer?
 
cutlerylover said:
I would say its VERY strong, but 800 lbs...Hmmm if thats true then it puts cold steels locks to shame since their "famous" videos show their folders locks holding up 100 - 150 lbs...Im sure the locks failed with a little more weight off camera...Im not saying tis not possible Im just saying Im skeptical too...Anyone know the answer?
Click to expand...

As for Cold Steels locks, they probably would fail with 151 pounds instead 150, or they might not be able to go heavier because of the handle breaking, in most cases the handle was way too flexed and with a couple of pounds more, the handle might have broken instead of the lock. Just so everyone doesn't think I hate Cold Steel (which I definately don't), I would trust the locks on Cold Steel knives to a certain extent, but there aren't any folding knives on this earth that I would stab through a car door and not worry a little about my fingers. Actually there aren't any knives on this earth that I would want to stick in a car door, because knives are too nice of a tool to treat like a common screwdriver.
 
BJE said:
Actually there aren't any knives on this earth that I would want to stick in a car door, because knives are too nice of a tool to treat like a common screwdriver.
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And car doors doesn't grow on trees also. :D
 
LOL...I figured what they shows was the most they can handle otherwise they would show more...but I ws using that as a compariosn, if cold steel folders can't handle more than 150 lbs how can another knife handles 800 lbs...Im just saying thats a big leap...wondering if it's possible? Thats all...
 
To hold 800 pounds they first thing you need to look at would be the pivot. If the handle is Ti, SS or has thick steel liners then the pivot is the weakest point. I personally doubt that it can hold 800 pounds but thats just my opinion.
 
Hye you know ebay descriptions are as true as the sellers imagination, keep that in mind, I am just wondering if Benchmade ever came out with a number that verifies the amount of weight the lock can handle...
 
Here is the description of the axis lock right from their site...I don't see anythign about that in there...but I guess if the calim was made it could have been made anywhere...the question is did Benchmade say it or someone else?

AXIS™
"A Benchmade exclusive, this patented AXIS™ locking mechanism is an ingenious marvel that has been touted by some as quite possibly "the strongest folding lock ever." It's the culmination of four years of "tinkering" by renowned custom knife makers Bill McHenry and Jason Williams. So simple yet so functional, this mechanism is certain to leave you scratching your head and saying, "WOW, why didn't I think of that…" The features of the AXIS lock are significant and greatly enhance the function of knives. First and foremost is the strength. This lock is definitely more than adequate for the demands of normal knife use. A close second to strength is the inherent AXIS advantage of being totally ambidextrous without user compromise. The blade can be readily actuated open or closed with either hand- without ever having to place flesh in the blade path. Lastly, and certainly not any less impressive, is the indescribable "smoothness" with which the mechanism and blade function. By design there are no traditional "friction" parts to the AXIS mechanism, making the action the much smoother. And it's all reasonably exposed so you can easily clean away any unwarranted debris. Basically, AXIS gets its function from a spring-loaded bar that rides forward and back in a slot machined into both liners. The bar extends to both sides of the knife; spanning the space between the liners and is positioned over the rear of the blade. It engages a ramped notch cut into the tang portion of the knife blade when it is opened. Two omega style springs, one on each liner, give the locking bar its inertia to engage the knife tang, and as a result the tang is wedged solidly between a sizable stop pin and the AXIS bar itself. It's a lot of words in an attempt to describe simplicity, but the very best way to truly appreciate the AXIS lock is to experience it for yourself firsthand. There are several models to choose from with more on the way. "

(direct quote from Benchmade's website)
 
BJE said:
Actually there aren't any knives on this earth that I would want to stick in a car door, because knives are too nice of a tool to treat like a common screwdriver.
Click to expand...

I don't even stick my screwdrivers through car doors, much less my knives. ;)
 
ohmyheckinslc said:
Is this true?
Click to expand...

It is indeterminate and meaningless. There is no way to evaluate if it is true or false. Locks, and blades, will break under a given strain which is set in such tests by the level of torque so you need to know where the force was applied. If for example it takes 600 in.lbs to break a lock this means it can take 600 lbs at a distance of one inch from the pivot, 300 lbs at two inches, or 1200 at a half an inch. Thus citing the force alone is meaningless. It would be just as useful as stating "The knife can take forces up to 3 inches from the pivot." . However most people would realize immediate that statement lacks the required information.

-Cliff
 
It sure isn't 6 or 8 hundred lbs but the CS video clip of the Recon 1 (uses an Axis type lock) is somewhat impressive. Click on "See a Clip from Solid Proof" on the link below.
http://www.coldsteel.com/recon1.html

Also, SOG claims its "Arc-Lock" can withstand 1000 lbs.
http://www.sogknives.com/Folding/SpecElite/SE18.htm

I have sent SOG an email asking how from from the lock is the weight hung and what thickness of rope did they use (that would also distibute the weight somewhat). This is crucial information, as Cliff pointed out. I'll post if I get a response.

Regards
 
Re: Sog's 1000lb claim, IIRC, they placed some smaller amount of weight, on the end of the blade, which was equal to 1000lbs at the pivot... This is like what Cliff was talking about.
 
bladeprince said:
Also, SOG claims its "Arc-Lock" can withstand 1000 lbs.
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What they say is even worst than the above because not only do they got give the necessary information, what they do say :

"The Arc-Lock™ was independently lab tested at over 1000 lbs. of pressure without lock failure."

is jibberish. 1000 lbs is a force not a pressure. Benchmade also notes similar meaningless statements like the axis lock can take of 200 lbs in a negative load before breaking. Spyderco is one of the few companies which will note the torques.

-Cliff
 
Marketing worries only about raising sales, so I guess with this inacurate statements they succed. I saw even more interesting :

" Nowadays Marttiini orders the special Marttiini®-Steel from the steel factories in Germany and France. In manufacturing process the sketches of blades are put through the rollers, which change the design of molecules from round to ellipse shape. This processing makes the metal composition more density and therefore makes blades more durable and flexible and the edge remains sharpness notable longer. "

So it is several inaccurate statements here (there is no molecules in steel but atoms in the crystall formation (may be carbides only), they are no way to change shape of round molecule to ellipse until you have ultimate power over laws of phisycs etc...).

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. http://www.marttiini.fi/puukot/shop/english/tuotteet.htm
 
They are probably referring to the change in the grain/carbide shape/size. There is also no significant increase in density through forging, of which rolling is a specific type.

-Cliff
 
You're all beating about the proverbial bush!

Allow me to volunteer to answer this question once and for all.

Each of you send me one of your BMs free of charge and I will conduct the necessary testing..........

Honest injun...............naturally due to the destructive nature of said tests no knives will be returned to their original owners.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
What they say is even worst than the above because not only do they got give the necessary information, what they do say :

"The Arc-Lock™ was independently lab tested at over 1000 lbs. of pressure without lock failure."

is jibberish. 1000 lbs is a force not a pressure. Benchmade also notes similar meaningless statements like the axis lock can take of 200 lbs in a negative load before breaking. Spyderco is one of the few companies which will note the torques.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Oops misquote my mistake. SOG has 1000 lbs of force written down. It is probably inch/pounds. But i can't prove it. Guess you'll have to call them and find out.
 
sog said:
SOG has 1000 lbs of force written down. It is probably inch/pounds. But i can't prove it. Guess you'll have to call them and find out.
Click to expand...

"Strength: The Arc-Lock™ was independently lab tested at over 1000 lbs. of pressure without lock failure."

From :

http://www.sogknives.com/Folding/SpecElite/SE18.htm

Inches per pound would be another insensible unit. Torque is the cross product of force and distance so the units are (force)*(length). In the standard system usually ft.lbs or in.lbs. Lock strengths are always quoted in in.lbs because the numbers would be very lot in ft.lbs and thus not visually impressive. For example 600 in.lbs sounds like a lot, however 50 ft.lbs does not. They are however both the same number.

-Cliff
 
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