Is trying to heat treat w2 in a small forge an exercise in futility?

Josh Rider

Josh Rider

Stuff maker
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Since I sold my kiln I bought an atlas mini forge.

I have 1084 for knives in house and am going to be outsourcing my stainless.

But...I have a bunch of w2 I want to use and am still addicted to hamons. I'm also trying to learn how to forge.

Since I don't have a p.i.d. and it's a mini forge, am I wasting my time trying to heat treat the w2?
I have parks 50, I think I can manage keeping the edge at consistent color.
 
Could you do it ... sure, its possible.
Is it likely to work well ...not likely.

A small forge isn't the right tool to heat W2 and especially when clay coated and trying for the evenness of heat needed for a hamon.

Save up and build a 16"X8" tube forge for forging and HT.
 
You aren't wasting your time, Josh. Wally Hayes has made gorgeous hamon in a coffee can forge with a plumber's torch. Just keep your expectations realistic. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and realize it isn't optimal but have at it and have fun!
 
Not futile at all. Look up decalescence.....learn to use/manipulate it in the forge.
 
the key is being able to control the temperature. A thermocouple really helps. A possible problem with a small forge is that you can't use the smaller burner trick like folks use n "sword forges" because your burner is already small. :D Before I got my oven, I heat treated W2 in m Chile forge using a single small burner, a black iron muffle pipe and a hand held thermocouple setup.
 
Thanks Rick, might as well give it a shot!
It won't be the first time I've ruined a bar of Aldo's steel.
I went ahead and profiled a knife and took it to a 200 grit ugly belt finish. Mixed some satanite and water and applied it to a clean blade. I'm half tempted to do a brine 3 second quench then to the parks 50.
I've seen some killer hamons from that. (Not me personally, I've seen other makers do that)
I think I'll start of with maybe just an interrupted oil quench the first time and save the blade breaking for later.

Jdm61 I do have a handheld thermocouple and pyrometer, I may try it out.
Russ, I looked up decalescence and recalescense. Looks like witchcraft to me but, cool stuff!



 
Practice and patience.

Practice and patience.

Practice and patience.

If you have both, you'll figure it out, and with steels like that, perhaps never return to the kiln.
 
Just an update
I got some good advice about taking my clay down through the tang and to go a little thinner so I did that.
I heat treated a couple 1084 blades and this w2 wharncliffe tonight.
The file skated across the edge. jdm61, I watched some decalescence/recalescence with the 1084 blades with the lights out. (very cool)
The blades are tempering now, I'll try to get some grinding and hand sanding in in the next few days to see if I can reveal a hamon.
If anyone has anything to add, I appreciate all advice and critique. I don't get offended easily so if you see something, say something... wait.

Left to right 2 1084 blades, w2 with clay scraped off.
 
Oh I'm sure she wouldn't mind you throwing in the kitchen oven next to the quiche.
 
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So after hand sanding for hours.
This is what I get. My hamon is boring. I don't expect Nick Wheeler or DH3 hamons out of the gate, but what is causing this? Clay thickness, stock thickness, the way I polish/sand, all of the above and then some stuff I don't know about?

I've tried Ferric and Vinegar with dawn, the latter being what I have better luck with.

I'm not upset or anything, just trying to improve.

Just because I have a hamon doesn't mean I necessarily have the hardness I aimed for, right? After the quench it was 2 x 1 hour tempers at 450 degrees.




This is after several etches, sanding to 1200 grit then 1500 grit silicon carbide powder and even flitz to remove oxides.

Thanks again guys for any tips.
 
Your on the right track, logs good! Two secrets to active Hamons
Less heat
Less clay
After enough practice you won't even need clay just temp control. I get more active Hamons without clay.
 
Kentucky said:
Your on the right track, logs good! Two secrets to active Hamons
Less heat
Less clay
After enough practice you won't even need clay just temp control. I get more active Hamons without clay.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kentucky!
Rick mentioned that my clay looked too thick so I'll try less clay next time.
 
Josh, I think Nick Wheeler also does his hamons without clay.... crazy control. I suspect Mr. Ken Tucky is a freak, too.

I just posted a video on my facebook of a Japanese swordsmith who wraps his sword in thin twine prior to claying.
 
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