Is ZDP-189 too brittle???

C

CMSpeedy

Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
209
I was thinking about buying the Caly 3 in ZDP and CF as soon as it comes out, but have durability concerns about ZDP-189. I already broke the tip off of my ZPD-189 Leek and I was barely even pushing it.

This stuff seems awefully brittle to me. It forms almost no burr and is hard as hell, but the ease with which the tip broke off (Hit a staple in a box) has me worried about buying another knife in this metal.

There is not enough data out on the forum about this metal. It seems that if William Henry and Spyderco are using it them it must be good stuff.

Guys with ZDP Spydercos, have you had any problems with brittle blades??
 
Both a Caly and a D4 in ZDP. No issues so far. Used them both quite a bit but haven't tried cutting staples ;) It really lets you put a sharp edge on the knife. The Caly is a light saber! I like the hole, the jimping and the clip better on the D4 though.

Hope this helps,

Ken
 
What alarms me is that rather than the blade deforming a little the whole tip broke off. I'm no Metallurgy expert, but it seems that you have to make a compromise between hardness and flexibility. This material seems extremely hard and I'm questioning it's ability to take any lateral force AT ALL. I'm not talking prying, but normal forces that exist in most cutting situations.

To Kershaw's credit this was their first in ZDP and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and maybe it was my fault.

I'm just curious if anyone else has any horror stories because their seems to be large quantities of ZDP Spyders in service.
 
Hi Speedy,

We've got a few thousand in the field and we've had no complaints to date in this area.

Try to keep in mind that this is a new technology with little history. We all (Hitachi, Spyderco & our makers) try to do our best to provide an excellent product. The few thousand that we have in the field has been the real world test. Kinda like the first V8 or supercharger.

Reaction has been good enough that we're planning a few models as regular models in ZDP in the future and we have a few "sprints" planned with ZDP.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Reaction has been good enough that we're planning a few models as regular models in ZDP in the future and we have a few "sprints" planned with ZDP.

sal
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Sign me up, Sal! I'll take two of each!

Related - is the Sharpmaker hard enough to sharpen this steel? Or is there a ZDP updated ceramic planned??

Thanks!

Ken
 
C.M. Speedy, No chipping, cracking or brittleness at all. I can't say the same for S30V and I never even hit a staple when it happened.

Sal, I would really, really like a few ZDP Enduras of whatever blade style you decide is best. Caly Jr.'s too as I missed the last sprint and still don't have one ( I have 5 each Jess horn & Delicas in case I find a trade plus one of each are for my son) Regards, Joe L.
 
I suspect your debacle is one of 2 possibilities>> I would bet that it was either just a totally freak accident which would be very difficult to replicate. Also the blade may have had a crack in it from bad heat treating that could have only been seen with "magnaflux". When you are dealing even with the best of production knives they sometime slip through quality control. There have been a couple of knives I've had to send back to Spyderco for instance but on both occasions the problem got remedied.

I have been using my Burgundy Calypso Jr. with ZDP-189 for just about a year now and I have put it through some abusive scenerios even in extremely cold weather on a few occasions with no problems to speak of at all. Your bad experience is the first one of that nature that I have personally heard voiced in regards to ZDP-189 steel. You might just send it back to Kershaw with a kind letter explaining how it happened. Being it was a special edition knife they might just replace it for you. It would be interesting to see how good their customer service is. Sorry you had that problem but definitely keep us posted as to how it turns out.
 
Not to talk too much about other mfg here but Kershaw service is top notch so I recom. contacting them. Also, I read somewhere that the Rocwell hardness was a little bit higher than the spydie's.
 
I'm sending it in. It just doesn't seem right to me that a $110 knife doesn't hold up as well as a $40 one. Well see what they say, but I'm sure they will do something for me. I've had the same thing happen(hit a staple) with S30V and it usually chips the blade or dents it depending on how hard the manufacturer got it - never had a tip break off.

I've been very happy with Kershaw so I'll let you know what they do.
 
kbuzbee said:
Related - is the Sharpmaker hard enough to sharpen this steel? Or is there a ZDP updated ceramic planned??

Thanks!

Ken
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Even 65 Rc is below 1000 on the Vickers hardness scale. The Alumina in the Sharpmaker is around 2000. So yes the sharpmaker is hard enough. More problematic can be a large carbide volume. The carbides in the steel can be very hard in particular vanadium carbide. You would want to sharpen the carbide as well and not just break it out of the steel matrix. This shouldn't be a problem for the ZDP steel though since that contains apparently mostly chromium carbides. Something like S30V-S90V is in principle more difficult to sharpen with a softer medium, though I never had any problems with S30V either.

I never had problems with my ZDP Caly either, though, Spyderco has used ZDP in two smaller models that in general aren't really heavy prying tools. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was indeed a bit more brittle than, lets say S30V or VG-10. But for normal EDC use mine has held up fine. A broken tip on a regular staple doesn't seem normal performance to me. However, if you mean one of those 2 in wide industrial staples used for boxes and you tried to pry the staple out, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if any finer tip in any steel would break.
 
CMSpeedy said:
I'm sending it in. It just doesn't seem right to me that a $110 knife doesn't hold up as well as a $40 one. Well see what they say, but I'm sure they will do something for me. I've had the same thing happen(hit a staple) with S30V and it usually chips the blade or dents it depending on how hard the manufacturer got it - never had a tip break off.

I've been very happy with Kershaw so I'll let you know what they do.
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That sounds like the right thing to do.

Please do let us know how things turn out.
 
CMSpeedy,

Ever heard of a Box Cutter? They run about $5 at Sears:) They cut right through staples!

Kershaw will take good care of you. Send it in Priority Mail and you should have your knife back within two weeks.

Jeremy
 
I have had a Burgundy Calypso Jr. since last faqll and a Blue Delica4 since June. I have had no trouble with either one and I have dropped the Caly a couple of times with it landing on its tip and run both of them up against staples on occasions, all with no damage. But then, I never encountered any damage to any of my S30V or CPM440V blades either.
 
No problems out of either my ZDP-189 Calypso Jr. or Delica.

I vaguely recall there was an issue with some of the ZDP-189 Kershaws. Might want to check it out.
 
I've come to feel that the Leek was not the best project for this steel.
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The Leek is a cutter, and the blade shape lends to lots of fine detailed uses of the tip. I am a bit concerned that users may utilize this Leek for jobs it's not necessarily intended for.
I trust that those that end up getting this knife understand that the Leek has limitations, and is not designed to do anything but cut.

I expect my comment is nothing more than me being a bit paranoid, being this is our first knife in ZDP and all. Personally speaking, the ZDP Leek I have been carrying has held up really well, has become my edc and the first knife I go for. I’m a bit edgy, cause I want you all to be really pleased with them, and also want you all looking forward to future ZDP projects from us as well.

So to summarize, the steel has had some big hype, which I believe it lives up too. Hopefully the user understands it (ZDP) has been incorporated into a category of knife and blade shape that is not designed to take radical abuse.

Make sense?
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CM, I posted this a few weeks ago, and I still stand by it. My biggest fear with this Leek was its tip.

I'm not concerned at all with the steel on future projects, as I think we learned a bunch from the Leek.

Send it on back, and we will take care of it for you. Sorry for the issue.
 
Thank You Thomas I mailed it today. This will be the last you hear of this problem because of your great customer service.

Let this thread die.
 
I noticed that I broke the tip off my Caly ZDP, but it didn't stop me from buying 3 more. I also have 2 Delica ZDP and the ZDP Jess Horn.

I think that the Caly that broke was probably a fluke. I don't even know how it broke, I just noticed it missing one day.
 
I've heard directly from spyderco/william Henry that they are using a laminate (layered version)to cut down on cost - not pure zdp-189. I'm almost sure they will do away with this but they will cost a lot more if and when they do.
 
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