Issue Marking Blade

C

cschulte88

Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
20
Hi there! Thanks for taking time to read my post! I am a new knife maker and I am trying to mark my blades with my logo. I have not successfully put a clean, good looking mark on my blades yet and its super frustrating!

I am using a new logo from TUS Tech with electrolyte solution for high carbon steel from usaknifemaker.com. My etcher/marker can be used at 24V or 12V AC/DC. I usually only mark using the AC though at 24V. When I prepare to etch I try to clean the blade with alcohol and then I take the logo using blue painters tape (extra wide) and make sure it seals around the logo. Then I will hook up my etcher/marker to the blade. My marker probe is stainless steel with felt around the end. I take metal probe and hit it on the belt grinder for a few seconds to take off all of the black gunk that was left on there from the last etch. I also use a fresh pad each time.

My first issue is that I am getting ghosting around the stencil and I believe that might be caused by be running it at 24V and also too wet of a pad. I only get ghosting when I am running it at DC to etch. Not AC.

My main issue is that when I go to just mark (AC) by blade it seems that the black oxide is not sticking to my blade. I will do 30 quick passes over the stencil which is plenty to mark it well and it will show up on the blade until I rub it with a cloth and then most of it will just come right off. I am wondering if its because I didn't clean the blade well enough; there could be some leftover WD40 on it. I also clean the metal end of the probe off before I start etching and I use a fresh felt pad each time. Could this be happening because I don't have any metal built up in the pad or on the metal probe surface to deposit on the blade? I was also wondering if its because my probe is stainless steel and the blade metal is 1095 high carbon?

I have used a test piece of metal before (not heat treated) and I was getting really awesome marks on it but when I went to the blade it looks like crap. I don't think I cleaned the blade well enough and I did use a really wet pad on the blade but I feel like there is more going on here than a too wet of pad. Has anyone else seen most of their black marking basically rub off? I will try to post some pics!

Thank you for taking the time to read my issue! Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
If by ghosting you mean you get a partial etch somewhere you didn't intend it to, that's probably too much liquid and it's running off the stencil or not a good enough seal between the blade and the stencil and liquid is seeping in between.

i can also wipe the black crud out easily right after the etch. I started doing the etch in between tempering cycles so it'll stay dark. I could be doing something wrong too though, I don't know.
 
As Randy says above, the ghosting is usually caused by too much electrolyte leaking between stencil and blade.... OR the stencil moving a bit during etch. The DC phase MUST be used first since this is the time metal is actually removed to make the "etch". The AC is used next to deposit the "black" into the etch. If only AC is used, the black will be deposited on top of metal and will just wipe off as you saw.

There are some good "how to" videos on youtube that should provide info you need. I suspect you'll make a good mark with some practice. Good luck and come back and post a photo of your work.

Ken H>
 
Ken, I have seen multiple videos where people only use AC and it deposits a clean black mark that does not wipe off. I have even done this myself on test metal and it works great.
An example of a knife maker who only marks their blades without etching it first is Ekim Knives. In his how-to he only marks it and his mark does not wipe off.

My question is, what could cause the mark to wipe off? I am just confused as to why sometimes it doesn't wipe off and other times it does. I will post pics.
 
I am not wanting to dig out the metal (Etch). Just wanting to mark it using AC. I am wondering if marking is easier to do after etching because now you have metal to deposit on the blade?
 
I think what you might wish to focus on, is the etch actually removes metal for .001" or .002", and even up to .003" during the DC portion of the process. Then the AC portion deposits the black down into the depth of the etch. This allows the black to be more difficult to remove. If you use the AC portion of the process only, this puts the black down on top of the blade making it easy to remove. While the AC portion might do a tiny bit of depth, it's not nearly so good at getting depth as the DC portion.
 
I made several tries with DC mark only for short time (up to 3 sec.). It left nice white mark on blade. No actual picture unfortunately.
 
Frank Niro said:
I too, believe you must use DC first to actually etch.
Frank
Click to expand...
I use only DC and works fine and fast , and to get black finish on blade I just switch polarity . . .
This one is clear ..............

p66zwUn.jpg


Here is black one .............the lower one , the top is laser test

EcSIQ1G.jpg
 
Steel and etchant has something to do with it as well. As does your etcher. A fellow knife maker got the same etcher I did, and he couldn't get a clear etch for anything. We tested it and mine is putting out around 14 volts and his around 8 volts. Same exact model except mine is about 10 years older. Hardened vs soft can make a difference as well.

What I do is to etch DC first, this removes metal, then use the AC setting which both removes and deposits metal as it cycles. I'm using a low voltage etcher and etch for 2 minutes, and mark for 2 minutes. This leaves a mark that can be confused for a stamp. If I'm doing stainless I don't etch quite so deep, for carbon steel I figure it's going to get a patina and I want my mark to stay and be visible after years of use.
 
OK, let's talk about what is happening when you electro-etch/mark a blade:

The DC moves metal atoms off the lade and etches a minute recess. The direction of polarity is important. The longer you etch on DC, the deeper the mark goes. With experience, you can etch as deeply as a stamped mark.

The AC reverses the current direction 60 times a second, so it pulls some atoms off, then puts them back. It is also pulling carbon atoms off the pad block and putting them in the recess along with the metal. This quickly oxidizes the iron atoms and leaves a durable black oxide in the previously made etch recess.

Because the mark is below the surface, it is easy to clean up any unwanted staining or ghosting with a hard backing block and some 800 grit paper. A few strokes and all is gone on the surface, but the black in the recess is untouched.

Using AC only will only make a dark mark a few millionths of an inch deep. It will not last.

Using DC only will leave bare metal that will be white or frosty. Names and such may be hard to read if not in large letters.

Only by using DC to etch first and then AC to mark will you get a proper and professional looking makers mark.
 
I don't remember where I heard this, but I etch like 10 or more times for a short press of like 10 seconds each. Then I mark for maybe like 5 passes for like 5 seconds each. I think I use a lot of fluid because I always have ghosting, but when I clean it up afterwards with like 2000 grit paper, polishing paper or sometimes even Flitz, it is very sharp and my stamp uses small letters.
 
Things to try

use 12 vs 24 v

switch from blue painters tape to a full plastic tape like scotch / clear packing
The good blue tape traps and holds moisture/ electrolyte on the blade.

Dampened not wet, blot the excess out first

DC first to Deep
AC After to blacken

You need to fix the black oxides onto the steel.
Some boil their blades to set it.

Look up info from reputable sources like the marking equipment sellers
 
Last edited:
cschulte88 said:
N Natlek - Which laser setup do you use?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I do not know . I gave this steel to try. I did not attend the process.As far I know it was laser for engraving and to cutting some very thin steel .Probably because owner just bye that laser he have not enough experience to do it right .I ask for black mark only not engraved...........I ask him some time ago for another probe but he say no .. .. .. :thumbsdown:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top