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Its been like 15years - do we have a winner in VG10 vs 154cm?

Steelhog

Steelhog

Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
1,176
Hey all. So its been like 15year's - do we finally have a solid understanding of the pros and cons of VG10 vs 154cm? There are tons of tests online that seem to accidentally do a better job of proving edge geometry is more important than blade steel. Is there anyone that can help me understand what the composition should help these blades excel/work poorly in?

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=VG10,154CM&ni=643,51

In the end it think they are both great steels - but hoping to understand a little better at where they should work best.
 
Composition is pretty comperable. Which ever is heat treated better is the winner. Say the 154cm on the Case Bose knives or the cpm154 on Buck knives is most certainly better than the Chinese heat treated vg10 on some knives.
Vg10 is more corrosion resistant I think too
 
sXePhenomenal said:
Composition is pretty comperable. Which ever is heat treated better is the winner. Say the 154cm on the Case Bose knives or the cpm154 on Buck knives is most certainly better than the Chinese heat treated vg10 on some knives.
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Good point - the heat treat will absolutely have almost as much effect as the blade geometry. I am mostly trying to find out the small differences in the elements if all things were equal one would be more durable or better suited to a hollow grind, etc, etc........
 
I just don't understand how the basic elements interact to make small difference. So what effect should the increase in molybdenum have for 154 or the increase in cobat have for vg10 and how they all interact. :)
 
Larrin Larrin , is the man who can give you the best "Technical" answer for sure.

Imo VG-10 is good for the kitchen, I find it too chippy for rough tasks and find that 154cm is less prone to that problem. I find strange that some people reported VG-10 to roll in my experience it always chipped even broke.
 
Larrin said:
I have articles on the composition design for VG-10 and 154CM. I don't think I have anything comparing them directly to each other. It does talk about relative properties and what the Mo and Co do.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/05/14/why-there-is-cobalt-in-vg-10/

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/05/21/154cm-development-properties-legacy/

In general I would expect VG-10 to be a little tougher with a little lower wear resistance.
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Absolutely fantastic write ups!
 
Some really good points everyone. I do think it's interesting that the primary/most common chosen blade profiles in both may have an effect in the perceptions of performance. Lots of very thin flat grinds used in VG10 you just don't see as much with 154cm.
 
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as already swtated above. My experience is that vg-10 will be easier to sharpen than properly ht'd 154cm.
 
I find CM-154 to be finer grained (ref: Emerson, Benchmade Grippie), but in those knives the geometry does not help. Neither cut very well although they will take a fine edge, which quickly dulls. I much prefer VG-10 (ref:F1 -- the high V grind makes it an excellent slicer); it seems to have large carbides, similar to D-2. Very corrosion resistant, takes an excellent, fine edge with little effort (using a diamond hone) and holds it a long time.
 
steelhog said:
Hey all. So its been like 15year's - do we finally have a solid understanding of the pros and cons of VG10 vs 154cm? There are tons of tests online that seem to accidentally do a better job of proving edge geometry is more important than blade steel. Is there anyone that can help me understand what the composition should help these blades excel/work poorly in?

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=VG10,154CM&ni=643,51

In the end it think they are both great steels - but hoping to understand a little better at where they should work best.
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Yea it's called N690.

But in all seriousness, heat treatment is likely to be the determining factor along with blade and edge geometry for the task at hand. So it varies.

My super thin Chinese vg10 just chips often. So I prefer the N690... Though tbo it's thicker behind the edge. 154cm I've had was always too soft so I never kept any around from my Benchmades.
 
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I have had limited use of 154CM, one was the blade of a LM Charge ti and it did the job but not more.
When upgrading to a tti with CPM S30V the pieces fell into place. S30V does the job way bettter with LM's heattreat.
The second is a BM Mini Presidio, a great knife that I seldom use due to the tactical design.
Nothing wrong with the steel though.

VG-10 is another thing and I have it in many knives from 1 1/2" to 10" bladelenght.
I polish the edges and they have mostly convex edgegeometry.
Provided they are well maintained with sharp, polished edges, there has not been any troubles at all for 11 years now.
I find it to be a great steel for my kind of use.


Regards
Mikael
 
Is there a difference between the VG-10 as heat-treated in Japan as compared to the VG-10 heat-treated in China? And is the Chinese heat-treated version really VG-10, or some mystery steel that's only stamped as such?

Jim
 
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My ATS34/154cm blades have always held an edge a bit better, but other than that I have liked both steels. I guess if I had to choose one or the other from a quality maker, I would probably pick 154cm/ATS34. It use to be one of my favorite steels in the 90's. But I would not turn down a VG10 steel blade either. I would take both over S30V even though I have more S30V blades.
 
James Y said:
Is there a difference between the VG-10 as heat-treated in Japan as compared to the VG-10 heat-treated in China? And is the Chinese heat-treated version really VG-10, or some mystery steel that's only stamped as such?

Jim
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Heat treatment varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some manufacturers in China will indeed re label steels and skip important things. But not all manufacturers in China. Ie 'we knives' have been shown to be honest and provide a decent heat treatment.
 
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