It's time for some action

Darth Detori

Darth Detori

Joined
Sep 21, 2000
Messages
943
our trade, our art, our talent is being taken away from us by a blind government. These illusions of evil control them, and therefore they feel they must control us.

But it's time to open some eyes. It's time to go back and look at the basics: evil commits evil. Evil commits evil by whatever means. It is not accelerated by more than 2.5 inches of blade. It does not mug people because of two handles and a blade in between. It does not plan murder by slipping through customs. It puts on it's shoes, grabs whatever is convenient, and checks its guilt at the door.

These days the evil is not in the person, it is in what is in its hand. It's time to point the finger in the correct direction. It's time to realize who the real evil is and who it's really hurting.


I propose we, the blade forums, the balisong forum, and any other good-willed knife-carrying citizens, make people aware of this. Be it putting up posters, making a web-page, writing to your congressman, or kindly asking your local knife shop to hand out pamphlets, it's all good.

We can make a difference.
We must.
 
Count me in, I'll try to find some other balisong lovers here (that's gonna be pretty hard though)

 
what I'm thinking here is to have a webpage- this will be our base of operation. we could make up a mission statement, a petition, a section on your personal experiences, whatever.

The real question is who will run it?
 
"AMEN to that my freind!" I am trying my best to inspire all my freinds, and get them interested in this wonderful art and past-time. So far I've had the best luck with my fiance's children (6 year old boy, [main interest is balisong] and 8 year old girl [favors the nunchaku] but learns tricks at a surprising rate of speed) I almost feel like a father already! :D

"Now you can't catch it by the blade son!":(
 
AKTI is not all it is cracked up to be. They helped write Anti-Knife Legislation which would benefit some of the people that run AKTI.

Further, they acquiesce to the paranoid hysterics of Law Enforcement and those in the Criminal Justice System. Left up to those two groups of people, along with Politicians, there will be no one hand opening knives left for anyone. Bet on it. Bad decisions.
 
That's what I like about you, Don, you're always so positive and always so constructive.

Now that you've bashed AKTI, let's hear your alternative.

Right now, AKTI is the best thing we've got. They've done a lot of good in blunting anti-knife legislation and they know how to work WITHIN the political process which sometimes means compromising but is usually the best way to actually get things done.

Anyone can sit around and complain. Supporting AKTI is something positive that a person can actually get up and do.
 
I had a nice long reply all typed up, and Netscape crashes ... Crap! I blame Microsoft ...

Anyway,

The problem with any new pro-knife organisation is that, with too low a profile (and I would put the AKTI on the low-profile end of the scale, incidentally) then not enough awareness is generated. Knife-grabbing may be slowed, but not stopped.

With too high a profile, a pro-knife org. would likely be seen, especially to those who are in need of enlightenment on the issue, as a kind of "NRA-Lite" - and the NRA is already "the enemy" to such people. Such people will not listen.

Catch 22.

I do like the idea of "propaganda pamphlets." If you'll all allow me extend Darth's pamphlet proposition a little bit ...

Pamphlets just laying on a counter somewhere won't get read. Pamphlets laying on a counter in a store that the sheeple-minded aren't likely to frequent are not going to be read by those who would necessarily be the target audience. Put them in knife stores, absolutely, but also put them in kitchen-supply-type stores, Wal-Mart, etc (such placements would be difficult, but are vitally necessary). Ask store proprietors to put them in the bag with a customer's knife or knife-related purchase, because someone sheeple-minded is going to be more receptive to the "knife-as-a-tool" perspective when they've just purchased a knife-as-a-tool. Get "Knife Safety" posters placed next to kitchen cutlery displays, along with detailed info on how to contact the organisation that put them there. It makes for a very good first impression. Use these not so much as vehicles for information, but as teases to get people into seeking out the other information such an organisation offers (i.e. - detailed "anatomy" information, crime statistics, etc.) It's absolutely vital to get people nodding their heads in the right places before introducing any de-regulationary propositions.

Personally, I think the pamphlet idea (and a supporting web page) could be a great way to start. Like all things of course, it takes time and capitol to get going.

Which brings up problem #2: Raising the capitol to launch such an endeavour. Whole host of problems there, which I'll leave it to someone else to solve. ;)

Jon
Senior Member
NACIN
(North American Cutlery Information Network)

Postum Scriptication: Like the name? :D
 
Reality is sometimes negative Chuck. It takes the negative and the positive to make the world go around. But I think when an Organization does something like they did, and someone like Jim March, Private Citizen, has to jump into the fray to limit the damage, we have problems.

If you would go read some of the comments, perhaps you would see some truth in what I wrote.

Agreeing to Law Enforcement's paranoid fear of everything will ultimately get us in a position where we have laws that mirror Britain, do you disagree with that? Acquiescence and appeasement will get us nowhere. The majority of violent crimes where anything that can be described as an, "Edged Weapon" is used, most of those are kitchen knives, razor/carpet knives, boxcutter razor knives and screwdrivers.

So, all of the handwringing over a "menacing knife" becomes meaningless when examined under the light of truth.

Do you think I enjoy being negative Chuck? Or do you think that is just the way things are and I call them as I see them?

For the record, I wish there were no knife laws, period. At that point, there would be nothing "negative" to speak about.

I won't be positive and optimistic when it is not called for, to me, that is just being a "Yes Man."

Saying that someone is "negative" when they are simply stating what they see as truth, is almost an ad hominem attack. It's not my character that is negative, I'm simply tired of seeing people like you and myself sold down the river. That's all. If righteous indignation and railing against the insanity of weapons laws, especially knife laws where the knives that are always targeted and are hardly, if ever, the culprit, if that is "negative," I plead guilty Chuck.

The forces of AKTI are Manufacturers, and the knives that were to be legislated against were cheap, foreign knock-offs of some of the knives made by some of the people involved in AKTI. This has been noticed by others and not just myself.

The current "Flick Knife Hysteria" in California has been fueled by one Sheriff's complaint about some gang member having a knife that can be "flicked" open. You know as well as I do that once the camel gets his nose under the tent, it is very hard to beat the camel on the snout to remove it from the tent.

That is the point.

How can you "compromise" with people who will never be happy with the compromises you offer them? We have seen this time and time again with the Gun Control Debate. Some people will not be happy until they are all eradicated and the same is true for any knife that they can place in the "Weapon Category."

I hate to be the icewater, but that's the truth. The people who are control freaks and wish to ban everything, they never, ever stop.

Specifically, AKTI's Tactical Mistake was in thinking that only foreign made rip-offs would be the focus. Once they are gone, the powers that be will climb the ladder to the next available genre of knives. Bet on it. Take it to the bank.
 
There are other methods that can be employed as well..some of which do help get the individuals in government to look at the situation.

Call or e-mail your Representatives & Senators,both State and Federal and tell them how you as a voting member of the public feel about stupid knife laws.If you can also manage to get actual statistics on knife usage in crimes from your state or local area,these can be sent in to these government members to help show them the fallacy behind some of the restrictive knife laws.

Since there are many people who are involved in various Martial Arts in every state,when combined,these people make a sizable force that can help change current legislation,both State and Federal.Go around to the various schools & dojos where Martial Arts are taught and ask these people what they think about some of the current laws.I think you'll be able to get enough signatures for a petition just from these people.Plus,many of these people also work closely with the State & Local Police Departments,and could probably get the necessary statistics on crimes involving knives & other M.A. weaponry for you from these departments.After all,it is in their best interest to stay informed on such things,since at any moment some schmuck in government,who has no real clue as to what is reality and what is fantasy,could easily start making laws that would hurt these businesses.

A website is a great idea,especially if it can get and show the different crime statistics involving weaponry from each State or Country,and the laws of these areas that concern M.A. type weaponry.
This site should also show how the "weaponry" used in today's Martial Arts are in fact just "tools",and how rare it is that someone would actually carry these items specifically for use *as* a weapon.

Of course,if this site got built and the necessary information I have mentioned can be found upon it,the word of it should get spread to every Martial Arts school or dojo,every business that sells or makes various M.A. weaponry,and every State Representative and Senator...as well as to any other party that can be considered to be involved with this issue.In this way,we can show all parties what is going on around us and why things should be changed...as well as what is truly to be blamed.Let's show everyone the truth that can dispel the false images that are brought to mind by those who don't know the truth.

This has been a public service announcement from your balisong-flipping,sword wielding,staff swinging,stick twirling,shaggy warrior-priest. :)
 
Don has made his case clear and with the UK law as an example, I fully support him.

There is a saying here in my country: "give your flesh and they go for your heart" or something like that. The point is, they are taking it away from us bit by bit ...

I am fully supporting getting rid of the stupid knife/weapon law, and praying for all of you in US. If you lose this, there is no more free country to go for! (read: free but regulated, not free and anarchy everywhere like here) And there is no more balisong free state in the end. We will end up flipping spoons and no more cutting using cool knives ..

By the way, I noticed, today is Blasto's b'day ... <font color=red>Happy B'day Man! How old are you now?</font color=red>
 
Chuck:
I honestly beleive that we can't compromise. It is a fundamental right or it is not a fundamental right, we can't let it become conditional. This is what happened with gun control. We won't take them all, just the fully automatic ones. OK, that doesn't affect me, ok, then the assualt rifle, the sawed off shotguns, cause they're too small, soon it's going to be concealable pistols, cause they're too small, and .50s, cause they're too big, you know how it goes. You give an inch, they take a foot. That's how it works, and I think we all know that. This has begun with knives, and we only continue to loose ground, AKTI or no AKTI. While I don't think negativity is always called for, we certainly can't solve a problem that we refuse to see. Sorry if this offended anyone, but the time for compromise passed years ago.
 
You are, as the old saying goes, preachin' to choir.

Whinning around here isn't gonna do any good.

Fifteen replies later and Mr. Detori's original question remains largely unanswered.

Y'all remind me of the scene in the old Monty Python movie, The Life Of Brian, when the "activists" are all sitting around having their meeting and someone burst in and declares, "Brian's been arrested!" The "activists" look at each other with sudden seriousness and declare, "This calls for immediate... Discussion!"
 
For a minute there I thought you were going to quote the "Society For Putting Things on Top of Other Things" sketch... :)

Jon
AKA: Kamikaze Scotsman
 
Hmm..the only question that I noticed Darth had asked was "who would run it?",in regards to a website.This didn't get asked until the 4th post on this thread,making it only 12 until your post,Chuck :)

I cannot answer this question,since I myself am still pretty much computer illiterate,and have no knowledge of how to build a proper website.If I did have such knowledge,I'd go ahead and do it.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
Now that you've bashed AKTI, let's hear your alternative.
Click to expand...

Part of the "alternative" was trying to make AKTI "see the light."

In other words, the Machine [AKTI] to do battle was already in place Chuck. In other words, you have an Organization already in place that has resources. So, you try to convince them that the road they are taking is one of destruction.

The problem with calling what I am saying, "AKTI Bashing" is one of perception. Let me put it this way...

If you are a Blacksmith, and you have a hot piece of steel in your tongs, you have an anvil in front of you and a hammer in your other hand...what are you doing to the steel?

Well, you're "bashing" it, are you not? The nail that sticks up and is hammered home is being "bashed."

Both of these are constructive. What I say has a constructive intent and does not carry with it the destructive intent that you infer.

When I say, "acquiescing and appeasing to those in Law Enforcement, the Criminal Justice System and Politics will only lead to destruction," that is precisely what I mean.

The problem that I tried to make Mr. Buck see is this, if AKTI supports a ban on cheap imported knives that can be "flicked" open because they do not have a ball and detent, once those are gone, someone in one of those groups are going to start flicking open knives with a ball and detent and coming after them. Because most folding knives can be flicked open. Someone quoted the late James Mattis on this issue and what Mr. Mattis had to say was nothing short of brilliant.

"Almost all knives can be a 'Gravity Knife,' it all depends on how much gravity you apply to it."

So, when the next person comes along and says, "Well, the more expensive, Made in The U.S.A. knives can be flicked open as well, and you [AKTI] supported our actions in the past and admitted there was a threat to Law Enforcement Officers from 'Flick Knives,' why don't you support us now?"

The effect of that will be devastating.

So, one "alternative" is to get AKTI to change their position before it is too late. It might be too late already because the deal is done and a precedent has been set.

Now, if you are trying to squelch something you don't like by challenging someone [me] to build an Organization from the ground up, well...I think that is a backdoor slap.

I don't have the funds or the means to do it.

Perhaps Jim March would be interested in ultimately forming an Association that protects both knife and gun owners. I don't know.

AKTI is primarily funded by Manufacturers. And it comes as no surprise that the stand they made is not one of Principle, but one in the best interests of those funding the venture.

Do you disagree?

I think if the driving force behind the NRA were the Owners of Smith & Wesson and Colt, and they decided to "lessen the damage" of Gun Control Legislation by offering up "Cheap, Saturday Night Specials from Brazil, the Taurus..." on The Sacrifical Altar, while defending what they made...

And it just so happened that by doing so, they eliminated their competition...I would have a problem with that.

The current situation smells more of Protectionism than a stand on Principle that ALL knives should be protected.

California is gearing up to ban all knives with the capability to be opened with one hand, they consider them a menacing Switchblade. That's a threat.
 
Originally posted by MacCanine
Hmm..the only question that I noticed Darth had asked was "who would run it?",in regards to a website.This didn't get asked until the 4th post on this thread,making it only 12 until your post,Chuck :)
Click to expand...

alrighty then, lets convert my statement into a question: When are we going to take action?

Happy? ;) j/k

"California is gearing up to ban all knives with the capability to be opened with one hand, they consider them a menacing Switchblade. That's a threat."
jeez, I really don't get how opening a knife with one hand quickly is such a threat. If someone is going to open a knife and kill with it, it doesn't really matter how quickly they can open it, being that they're the aggressor. If your defending yourself, then speed does count. I mean, it really isn't like your giving the "enemy" too much of an advantage if you yourself are defended. the problem here is that they're removing our defense.

and that cop that was complaining about a "flick knife"? Oh come on, they have a knife, you have a gun, tonfa, hand cuffs, mace, a radio to call for back-up, etc. I'd hate to feel threatened as an officer, but it'd happen anyway- that's why they're armed.
 
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