I've been having some drilling problems.

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Jan 21, 2008
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Recently, i started making some knives. nothing too fancy, just simple affairs, but i bought a drill bit to drill the pin holes in the tang and it is not working. it is titainium, and according to some chart at home depot, it should be able to drill through high carbon steel. it did drill a few holes (3) but after those it hasnt been working. i sharpend it with a drillbit sharpener and still nothing. i think that it may be the steel that i am using. it is saw steel, but not very thick (maybe 1/32). i havent been softening it because i have no way to do my own heat-treat. also, i have just been using a drill, not a drill press. so, any suggestions?
 
You'll need a carbide bit to drill hardened saw steel. Did you temper it back at all? If not, it's likely to be brittle when you finally get it ground, which I suspect will take a while.

You could also use a dremel with grinding tips to make the holes, but if you already have a decent drill, definitely buy a solid carbide bit and use that. Clamp the blade down/vise it tight! Drill as slow as you can, and use cutting oil.

The next tip is to save up $150 max and get you a HF or Craftsman drill press. I got my Craftsman for $130 and so far it's doing just fine.
 
on the knives that i have made with it the steel didnt end up being brittle. i have a thread out there somwhere with some in use pictures of it, ill try to dig that up. the main reason that i dont have a drill press is the lack of room. but i should probably look into them. do you know a source for carbide drill bits?
 
I just got on of these carbide spade bits from knifekits. Alas, I haven't used it yet... maybe in the morning I'll try it out and let you know.

Once you get even a basic drill press, you'll never want to use a hand drill again.
 
Are you starting with a 1/8th or smaller bit and working your way up an 1/8th at most at a time as you go? Can you slow that hand drill down to around 300-500 rpms?
 
If your drill VS slow it way down. This company has bits that will cut extremely hard steel but, are kind of pricy and they will snap if you apply to much pressure. Don't ask about how I know about them snapping. Great service and delivery.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#

Use the search feature and look up straight flute drill bits, you will probably want the carbide tipped but standard will work.

Here is a direct link to the bits, if it won't work cut and paste to your browser.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#straight-flute-drill-bits/=en7m7
 
It probably has a lot to do with your steel being hard, but when I started my first knife from 'soft' 5160 I used a cordless hand drill to drill the pin holes. I used cobalt bits, cutting oil, and it still took me about an hour per hole. After I bought a small, inexpensive Craftsman drill press drilling holes even with cheap bits (and often no cutting oil either) is now a breeze. I think a drill press is one of those 'how in the world did I get by without this' kind of tools to have around.

Good luck!
 
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There are so many problems here. Some have been addressed, but for the sake of clarity, I'll try to sum it up:

First, you can't expect to drill a precision hole with a hand drill. I don't care if you have the best arms in the world and can stare for an hour without blinking, it will not be a fraction as true as a hole drilled with even a cheap $50 drill press. Any wobble ( and we are talking about ten-thousandths of an inch wobble) will make the bit try to cut on the corners instead of the flats, and ruin the bit in seconds.

Second - and this is info for all newer shop guys and gals - If you aren't familiar with drill bits, here is some advise.
Drill bits sold at the big box stores are general use bits, mainly. Even their specialty bits are made overseas and mass produced with little quality control.
Forget the advertising on the packages - "drills all steels", TITANIUM, COBALT, Moly-Steel,etc.
The "titanium" bits are just plated with titanium nitride, and it will be gone in a few drillings on steel. The "special alloy" (cobalt, etc.) bits may be a little better, or may be junk, but won't last any longer if used improperly. Good quality high speed steel drill bits will drill your steel if it is ready to drill.
You want either good quality high speed bits from an industrial supplier, or carbide bits. Carbide will cost a lot more, but will drill most anything you want to in knifemaking.

Speed- One of the main features of a drill press is the ability to set the speed at a constant speed. Use the proper speed and feed pressure for the bit and steel combination. Some reading will quickly help you understand that the old "fast for wood -slow for steel" is a good guideline ,but not always true.

Pressure and lubrication - The feed rate is determined by how hard you bear down on the feed arm. The bit temperature and cutting efficiency is aided by the lubricant you use. Using a good machining tooling lubricant and just the right amount of pressure will drill the hole much easier. Trying to do pull-ups on the feed arm to make the drill bit cut faster will damage the drill press and ruin the bit. Also, drilling too fast and with too much pressure can spot harden the steel and that hole won't finish drilling with anything but carbide. You sometimes read about people drilling by friction with old drill bits and lots of speed and pressure to heat the steel red hot and burn the hole through. That might make a hole (a very non-precision one), but it will put stresses and other defects in the steel that may well ruin the blade in HT.

Sharpening drill bits is an art. Most drill bit hardware store sharpeners are pretty useless. However,the old saying is," a sharp bit drills ,and a dull bit burns", so learn how to do it or get your bits professionally sharpened when they need it. Drilling with a dull bit will overheat the bit and it will become useless - and resharpening a softened bit won't make it work. BTW, hand sharpening a bit by eye on a belt grinder or grinding wheel is a really poor way to do it. It takes a flat lap ( I use diamond) and a steady holding jig to keep the flat cutting surfaces true. The angle is very important and I doubt that anyone here can tell the difference of even ten degrees by eye while grinding a bit by hand.

STEEL - There is no reason that a normal bit won't drill the steels we work in ......unless the steel is not prepared for drilling.
Drilling hardened second use (found, recycled, mystery) steels will destroy a drill bit quickly. It might drill one hole just fine, and never drill another.
Steel comes from the factory ready to be used in industry. They are nice people at the steel mills, but they are not thinking about Joe the Knifemaker and his hand drill when they run 200 tons of steel through the rollers. ALL steel that you work on should be considered partially hard and not properly annealed, unless it is specifically labeled "fully annealed". Even then it may not be as soft and machinable as it could be. Annealing and spheroidizing the steel yourself is good metallurgy and will make drilling and working the blade easier - as well as make HT more reliable.
Of course, if it is mystery steel then all bets are off anyway .


All this is why picking the right bit, maintaining its edge, feed pressure, speed, and lubrication can make a machine shop use a bit for days, and a hobbyist can ruin one in two holes.

Stacy
 
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What speed, oil and type of bit are recommended?
I have a drill press with the speed set at about 950 rpm. Do I need to lower it to say 500? What types of oil should I use and is there a carbide bit type that will work better than others for drilling hard tangs?
 
I have had luck with some cobalt 1/8" bits I picked up. Generally if my center punch can punch the steel, it will drill, if not it needs to be annealed. Some of the cheap drill presses don't go slow enough for larger bits. Yesterday I had a 5/16" hole go bad, burned a bit, and had to re anneal it for it to cut. I think my drill is turning to fast. I think If i would have stopped and sharpened the bit as soon as it stopped cutting instead of applying more pressure it would have worked.
 
What speed is recommended for a 1/8" bit in hard steel? I couldn't get through a tang with a cobalt bit, and now have one in carbide.
 
for high carbon steel i would srill at about 300rpm and just plug away at the hole, pull down the drill until you see the swarf come out, then pull out the bit, repeat until the hole is drilled never leaving the bit cutting for long enough to het it or the work up.

in hardened steel i would drop the speed by half, i haven't got my cutting speed grahp here but i daresay you could get all of the reccommended figures from google.
 
I think a drill press is one of those 'how in the world did I get by without this' kind of tools to have around.

Right on. I honestly think if I was starting over, I would buy a press before a grinder. Seriously, it helps that much. Don't forget you can use sanding mandrels in a press too, but I have no experience with that yet.

Good questions about speed... I have my Craftsman set at it lowest speed, supposedly the spindle speed is 620RPM. I think even slower might be better, but that's what I have to work with. I use thread-cutting oil, plenty of t. Even when drilling wood, I back out the bit a couple times so chips/swarf don't build up. Luckily my press was nice and straight right out of the box, so this isn't a problem. It seems to work fine but I'll wait for the more experienced guys to chime in, as I may be wrong or missing something.

Stacy, I'll have you know, I copied your post to my shop tips folder. Thanks for taking the time to clarify, I'm sure you've had this conversation many times. :thumbup:
 
Thanks,
The go to guy for drill speeds and such is Nathan the Machinist. I'm sure he will chime in soon.

There are some exceptions to the slow rule when using carbide and drilling certain steels, but a good guide for high speed bits is -the larger the bit the slower the speed. Also the harder the steel the slower the speed. For a HHS bit,the general rule is that the speed starts at 3000RPM for 1/16" and goes down to 300RPM for 1" bits. If the steel is hard, the speed needs to be cut in half .Those speeds are for a fully lubricated bit.

Carbide bits need to be run faster than HSS bits, and must be chatter free or they will be broken in a flash. Carbide is much harder than any steel you will be drilling, but is very brittle. It is virtually impossible to use a carbide bit ( other than a masonry bit) in a hand drill.The way I do it is either to run them dry or flood them with coolant. Some folks buy the fairly cheap masonry bits and put a slightly better edge on them ( diamond stone or lap). They are cheap and one of the only drill bits at HF worth buying. However, they don't come in much size variety or small sizes. They also won't make precision holes, like pivots. For precision pivot holes get the best carbide bits you can and carbide reamers. Drill the hole about .010 below target and ream the hole to a perfect fit. Either a chucking reamer or a hand reamer will work.

Something I should have cleared up is the term HIGH SPEED bit. The term refers to the metal the bit is made from (high speed steel) and not the speed the bit is intended to run at. It is usually designated as HSS. HSS can work at higher temperatures ( also called hot work steel), but once it gets to 800-900F it will be ruined just as fast as a HF junker. The junction point of a drill bit and the steel can rise to the melting point of the steel in seconds if the bit is dull and run dry under too much pressure. This can harden the steel being drilled and destroy the bit.

As far as lubrication goes, most any shop coolant will work. Kerosene, Cool Tool, tapping fluid, cutting oil,water based cutting/lubricating oils,etc. An old shop blend is a mix of kerosene and 30 weight oil . It works OK and is cheap. The thing to makes coolants work is to flood the bit edge with the fluid. It requires more than just one drop every minute or so. Industrial bits run under a steady flow of oil that is captured, filtered, and returned by a coolant pump ( just like many metal cutting band saws).There are some tricks to make home drilling better without industrial cooling equipment. One is to made a circular dam with putty around the hole site and put some lubricant in to make a pool of coolant. The bit will need to be lifted every few seconds of drilling to allow fresh coolant to enter the hole and cool the cutting edge. A squirt can of cutting oil can be dripped on as a steady drip and will work well,too. In either case, a catch pan under the table and vise is needed to catch the excess oil. If you do a lot of drilling, you can strain the oil through a piece of fine mesh wire ( kitchen strainer) or a paint filter and reuse it.

All oily rags need to be stored in a water filled can, and either washed or safely disposed of ( hint: if you enjoy a pleasant relationship with your spouse, and wish it to remain that way, don't wash the rags in the family washing machine! ). This is one reason water based cooling oils are now the norm in industry. I use an industrial concentrate I get from Grainger (don't remember the name) and mix it 7:1 with water. Non-toxic, low odor, non-flamable, easy clean up. IIRC it is about $28 a gallon, so the diluted mix is $3.50 a gallon. My shop rags and cloths can be hosed off and used again and again. Once in a blue moon I wash them in a bucket of Tide, rinse them off, wring them out,and set them on the deck to dry.

Stacy
 
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I am trying to get through the tang of a Helle stainless blank, and I couldn't do it with cobalt and a hand drill. I set up an old drill press with speeds that run from @500 rpm to a high of 3000rpm. The label in the press suggests 1750 for a 4mm hole or 3000 for a 2.4 mm drill for "iron or steel." It says nothing about hard stainless. The Helle blank is the laminated version - I had no trouble getting through a non-laminated Helle stainless blank or a laminated carbon steel Lauri PT tang with a cobalt bit.

The Helle laminated blade tang core is really hard. I got through the soft outer layers of the lamination, but the core stopped me COLD when using a cobalt bit!

I have a couple of carbide bits from a knife parts supply shop and hope to use them without breaking them. I hesitate to adjust the speed without some guidance - I have the drill press at the lowest setting right now. I would guess that I should use the lowest setting or the next up, but I am not sure about this.

I am tired of destroying drill bits - they are costly.
 
A good rule of thumb for figuring the Drilling RPM's for most of our blade steels with HSS bits is 120/Drill Diameter.
380 for 5/16
480 for 1/4
960 for 1/8

Whole different animal for Carbide.

I generally run even slower in the 1/4" and up sizes
These numbers are for annealed steel mind you....
 
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