Izula Neck Knife Legality in California?

Erasmus said:
There are plenty of daggers over 2" for sale here in California. My friend bought one here.
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which means nothing, you can buy plenty of knives in austin which arent legal to carry in TX, autos, daggers, blades over 5'5", all for sale, all illegal to carry.
 
Swedge said:
I did a Google search for the words "extremist" and "Idaho" and came up with around 385,000 hits. Then I did a Google search for the words "extremist" and "California" and came up with around 1,020,000 hits. But the population of California is about 36,750,000 and the population of Idaho is about 1,500,000. Thus the ratio of references to "extremists" in California is about 2.78 per 100 residents (and many of those who are considered extremists are Republicans). The ratio of references to "extremists" in Idaho is about 25.7 per 100 (and many of those who are considered extremists are Nazis).

So we may have more fruits, but you have more nuts!
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hahaha
 
I worked with a knife dealer for several years and have gotten to be pretty well versed in CA knife law.

12020 does not ban the possesion or carry of double edged knives as long as they are exposed. My old boss had to educate some PD officers about that when they questioned a SOG Pentagon on his table during a gun show.

653K states you can carry butterfly and autos with blades 2 in or under.

Also,

626.10 section A covers k-12, law is more strict.

626.10 section B is Univer. Colleges and follows 653K as far as folders go.

Also, LEO's do not have an exemption in CA to carrying autos, concealed fixed blades or butterfly knives.

It is illegal for LEO's/first responders to do that. My boss knew of a CA DOJ agent that was charging LEO's with possession of a switich blade over 2 inches, violation of 653K.

Benchmade knives is trying to help get the CA knife law changed in response to this.


12020 states.

As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon

I guess if you felt the need to carry a fixed hawk bill concealed, you could argue that it is not 'capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon' but have fun with that one.
 
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Mr Smith said:
12020 states.

As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon

QUOTE]

This is why even folders can be a technicality in motor vehicles. The penal code prohibits dirks or daggers in the passenger compartment of motor vehicles, concealed or not. And under the definition, a folder than can be locked open will be considered a dirk or dagger if it is open in the locked position.

Otherwise, state law allows open carry of fixed blades of any size (I can carry my swords if I want to) but prohibits concealed carry of fixed blades of any size. And if your jacket covers half of the knife on your belt, it might be considered concealed, so be careful with that.

State law allows only non-locking folders under 2.5" on K-12, but allows locking folders of any size on college campus. Fixed blades are limited to 2" on college campus.

Interestingly, state law allows firearm carry on school property for CCW holders. However, the issuing authority for my CCW (Tulare County) adds a specific prohibition for carry on school property.
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Digging up an old topic here... So I have a Carter neck knife and I just moved to California. I shouldn't have any problems if it's just hanging around my neck visible right? Even so, I'm pretty sure that under my shirt wouldn't get me in any trouble unless I was searched. Looks like any other thing one might wear around the neck when it's under a shirt. If you have a collar you can't even see the paracord.
 
JediKnight86 said:
Digging up an old topic here... So I have a Carter neck knife and I just moved to California. I shouldn't have any problems if it's just hanging around my neck visible right? Even so, I'm pretty sure that under my shirt wouldn't get me in any trouble unless I was searched. Looks like any other thing one might wear around the neck when it's under a shirt. If you have a collar you can't even see the paracord.
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If you're going to carry illegally ie neck knife under the shirt, there's no need to be concerned about the legality of any knife you carry. To answer your question, I would think that hanging from the neck should be okay, but I would certainly listen to MORIMOTOM's advice in this thread. He's both a cop in CA and he actually is looking at the verbiage for his conclusions.
 
You really have to make sure your county allows carry of a fixed blade. There are lots of counties that have regulations beyond state code. Cant stress that enough.
 
I don't know of any county that prohibits the carry of a fixed blade. LA does not allow blades of more than 3" (IIRC) in some instances, but I haven't heard of any county that prohibits fixed blades. Can you cite one?

JediKnigt: hanging visibly around your neck, there is no problem under state law. Hanging under your shirt, it's probably a concealed dirk or dagger, which is illegal under state law.
 
Call the local PD where you are at. I've called Concord PD here several times, and I know several officers personally. Usually they'll tell you what the local laws are, and more specifically, what they will ding you for if you break them and they catch you. When I call, I get badge #'s and note the time & date of the call. If there's an issue, I can go back to that if needed. It's never been a problem before, and every time I've called they've appreciated that I checked.

thx - cpr
 
orca8589 said:
Call the local PD where you are at. I've called Concord PD here several times, and I know several officers personally. Usually they'll tell you what the local laws are, and more specifically, what they will ding you for if you break them and they catch you. When I call, I get badge #'s and note the time & date of the call. If there's an issue, I can go back to that if needed. It's never been a problem before, and every time I've called they've appreciated that I checked.

thx - cpr
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I find these threads interesting at times, especially comments that Calif. has such "draconian" laws.

Several things to think about. Some has already been mentioned.

There was a comment that LE/Fire personnel aren't exempt. They are if their Dept's policy allows it (For work).

There have been comments that LE knows exactly what the law is & some comments that they don't. Unfortunately, the later can be true, but can still be embarrassing & a PITA for you even if they're wrong.

While it seems to be against the law, many LE will not have a 2nd thought if your concealed FB has a blade length of less than 2". I believe ANY concealed FB is illegal in CA (Never mind municipal &/or country laws). But you may get away with it. However, is it worth it to try?

Yes, you can carry a FB of any length & even double edged. However, as has been said, you might get stopped, checked out, etc. Who needs that. If you're going to carry a FB, I think it'd be wise for it to be an avg. length FB & not something that's going to attract looks.

Personally, I EDC a small FB & it is not concealed, although it's not very obvious, either (On my keychain).

I don't carry an auto, except at work, & even then, I usually have 1-2 other knives with/on me.

People talk about Calif's "bad" knife laws (& I'll admit, some of it is silly), but I know some people that only carry 3" blade or shorter knives because of their state's knife laws. I have no blade length limit on the folders I carry.

To quote another BF member & brother LEO, you're better off to error on the side of caution.

Hope this helps, even if it is an old thread, I think it's still helpful to not forget the law (Good or bad, as it may be).

Of course, if one doesn't like their "liberal" Govt. (Which usually have more restrictive gun/knife laws), don't vote them in.
 
It is silly having to worry about these things. It's not like I'm a criminal with bad intent. I have a concealed weapons permit from AZ and loved not having to even think about what I had on me or where it was. Now in CA I'm always worried.

It is a 3" knife and as far as I know there's no specific law in Placer county that isn't CA law. I'll probably be getting a smaller one anyway. Though I have no reservations carrying a 4" folder clipped to my pocket. But, CA isn't that bad from the laws I've read. Places like NY are worse from what I've heard.
 
I had lived in California for twelve years until recently. Here is something anyone thinking of open (non-concealed) carrying should be aware of. It has been established by case law that your non-concealed knife is considered to be concealed if it EVER, even for an instant, becomes not readily visible to the observer. In other words, bend down to tie your shoelace and your shirt hangs down over the knife you were openly carrying on your hip and now you just committed a felony in California. I wish I could cite the case, wish I could and maybe someone here can help me with that as I remember this case from a case book we had to study in school (law school and no I am not a lawyer just a dropout who went on to other things), but I actually discovered this ruling from a case that went to the Cal State Supreme Court on appeal (they upheld her conviction) of a poor girl (she was like nineteen) who was lawfully and responsibly carrying a blade in a hip holster (one that would be illegal to carry concealed) when a very poor excuse for a police officer chose to stare at her for several minutes hoping and waiting for her to slip up. When she sat down for a moment her sweater momentarily covered the knife and boom - felony conviction that was upheld through the appeals process all the way to the Cali Supreme Court. Since she dared to exercise her constitutional right to a trial she no doubt did prison time too. Just food for thought if you live in California, or in some other draconian states for that matter, and you choose to carry non-concealed something that is illegal to conceal. Be VERY careful that it remain readily visible at all, and I really do mean ALL, times.
 
The funny thing is, that technically you are breaking the law if you ever buy a set of kitchen knives at a store, and carry them out into the parking lot in a shopping bag...

Maybe we should bring a bunch of sheaths for kitchen knife shopping?

While our knife laws aren't as bad as plenty of people think, they still suck. Let's not forget "weapons free" dorms in colleges.... which had full kitchens, which have big kitchen knives.

These laws were put in place originally with some "intent" in mind, I would imagine. In order to slap extra sentence time on gangbangers. Unfortunately, it just hurts the average citizens, nowadays.
 
goodeyesniper said:
The funny thing is, that technically you are breaking the law if you ever buy a set of kitchen knives at a store, and carry them out into the parking lot in a shopping bag...

Maybe we should bring a bunch of sheaths for kitchen knife shopping?

While our knife laws aren't as bad as plenty of people think, they still suck. Let's not forget "weapons free" dorms in colleges.... which had full kitchens, which have big kitchen knives.

These laws were put in place originally with some "intent" in mind, I would imagine. In order to slap extra sentence time on gangbangers. Unfortunately, it just hurts the average citizens, nowadays.
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not even close.

for example, knives carried in backpacks are not in violation of 12020. they must be carried on his/her person and they are not available for ready use. carried in a women's purse could arguably be in violation, however.

if you are carrying just purchased kitchen knives, boxed, in a bag, how is that a violation?

knives that are used for lawful purposes (recreation, to and from) and employment (kitchen workers, cooks, etc.) are also not in violation.

per 626.10, knives carried by employees necessary for their duties are legal.

perhaps you need to read the sections.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
not even close.

for example, knives carried in backpacks are not in violation of 12020. they must be carried on his/her person and they are not available for ready use. carried in a women's purse could arguably be in violation, however.

if you are carrying just purchased kitchen knives, boxed, in a bag, how is that a violation?

knives that are used for lawful purposes (recreation, to and from) and employment (kitchen workers, cooks, etc.) are also not in violation.

per 626.10, knives carried by employees necessary for their duties are legal.

perhaps you need to read the sections.
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I have seen the legalities of "neck knives" argued back and forth in this and other forums. MORIMOTOM, you seem to know more about knives and knife law than most of the others here. Do you have any actual experience with "neck knives"? Are the damn things even worth the hassle? Sure, they can be concealed, but how quickly can they be accessed in an emergency, be it self-defense or other situation? I wear a button-down dress shirt with a collar and I carry my Cold Steel 4" "Voyager" folder in my right front trouser pocket, completely concealed (I removed the clip. My state, MA, is rabidly anti-weapon). I cannot imagine accessing a "neck knife" without ripping my shirt open and tearing off my undershirt as well. Not to mention their questionable legality, if they can be considered a "dirk" or "dagger".
 
TOM1960 said:
I have seen the legalities of "neck knives" argued back and forth in this and other forums. MORIMOTOM, you seem to know more about knives and knife law than most of the others here. Do you have any actual experience with "neck knives"? Are the damn things even worth the hassle? Sure, they can be concealed, but how quickly can they be accessed in an emergency, be it self-defense or other situation? I wear a button-down dress shirt with a collar and I carry my Cold Steel 4" "Voyager" folder in my right front trouser pocket, completely concealed (I removed the clip. My state, MA, is rabidly anti-weapon). I cannot imagine accessing a "neck knife" without ripping my shirt open and tearing off my undershirt as well. Not to mention their questionable legality, if they can be considered a "dirk" or "dagger".
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imo, neck knives fall within the definitions put forth in 12020 pc.

"readily accessible" is somewhat subjective. contributing factors will include type of clothing, type of sheath, etc. with a regular type t-shirt, i find it fairly easy to access a neck knife. but in a suit with the shirt tucked in, it would be as you say.

folding knives must be in the open position to be in violation, generally, of the concealed carry sections. this, in and of itself, makes the knife readily accessible.

the restrictions are generalized, and the totality of circumstances must be considered in all investigations. we must also attempt not to personalize the laws, and try and decide whether our abilities would render the section unenforceable.

if you look at neck knife carry objectively, for the "average" person, would it be relatively easily accessible?

the neck knife would be much easier to access, under most conditions. there may be other modes of carry which are faster or more practical, but again, in a legal sense this does not matter. consider only how the carry relates to the letter of the law, not other carry modes, necessarily.
 
oh btw, i have encountered them in the field, though i don't recall any specific arrest.

i personally don't care for neck carry. i dont like anything around my neck, its like a garrot (sp?) for anyone to grab.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
not even close.

for example, knives carried in backpacks are not in violation of 12020. they must be carried on his/her person and they are not available for ready use. carried in a women's purse could arguably be in violation, however.

if you are carrying just purchased kitchen knives, boxed, in a bag, how is that a violation?

knives that are used for lawful purposes (recreation, to and from) and employment (kitchen workers, cooks, etc.) are also not in violation.

per 626.10, knives carried by employees necessary for their duties are legal.

perhaps you need to read the sections.
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Well, I'll be the first to tell you that my understanding is far from complete. Are backpacks specifically singled out, from 12020? My whole basic thought is that they put very vague circumstances in, which can go against you in the wrong place, with the wrong cop, at the wrong time...

So, obviously there's probably not a cop in CA who would try and get you for carrying new kitchen knives in a shopping bag, but I had heard talk of "readily accessible" being within arms reach or something similar, and thought it could technically fall into the gray zone... I could be very wrong, though...:p

Also, I know of people who have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to defend themselves in court for having completely legal rifles, stored in the textbook legal way, with no shady circumstances around their arrest. Simply because the cops were either clueless, or out for some ill intent, and the DA for whatever reason did not drop the case. I figure knives aren't far behind for cases like that, if California keeps going the way it's going. So I err on the safe side. :)
 
goodeyesniper said:
Well, I'll be the first to tell you that my understanding is far from complete. Are backpacks specifically singled out, from 12020? My whole basic thought is that they put very vague circumstances in, which can go against you in the wrong place, with the wrong cop, at the wrong time...

So, obviously there's probably not a cop in CA who would try and get you for carrying new kitchen knives in a shopping bag, but I had heard talk of "readily accessible" being within arms reach or something similar, and thought it could technically fall into the gray zone... I could be very wrong, though...:p

Also, I know of people who have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to defend themselves in court for having completely legal rifles, stored in the textbook legal way, with no shady circumstances around their arrest. Simply because the cops were either clueless, or out for some ill intent, and the DA for whatever reason did not drop the case. I figure knives aren't far behind for cases like that, if California keeps going the way it's going. So I err on the safe side. :)
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it is always a good idea to err on the side of caution, which i often recommend here.

backpacks are not singled out, but the subsections are fairly vague in general.

much of what i post here is my interpretation and opinion based on relatively complete knowledge of the sections and personal experience in the field.

"readily available" is subjective language, by design. what i believe to be the important verbage is "concealed upon his or her person" in addition to "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon". all the elements must be met in order to make a valid arrest, good faith notwithstandiing. i would not attempt to articulate a violation of 12020 if the knife was carried in a slung backpack (which i should have indicated in my previous post). but a backpack carried in one hand, with the pouch open, would be a totally different story. the specific method of carry, the totality of the circumstances, must be considered.

contrarily, 12031 pc, which covers unlawful firearm carry, does not have the "ready use" language. simple possession in a public place, regardless of carry method, of a loaded firearm is a violation.

mistakes made by officers are going to happen, of which, of course, i have no control over. i do have influence on those within my department, and have "educated" many on what i feel is the correct application of knife laws.
 
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