japanese kitchen knife advice

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cjd1980

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Sep 3, 2008
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hello everone

I am thinking about try my hand t making a few Japanese style kitchen knives i make mostly hunting knives and camp knives. so i don't usually make anything thinner then an 1/8th. i was wondering if any of you have any advice forging and heat treating these thinner blades. Thanks for the help guys
 
I don't forge, but for thin kitchen knives, you should heat treat prior to grinding.
 
While forging can be used to draw out a tang and reduce thicker stock, most Japanese blades are best ground from flat stock. PG stock is worth the extra in most cases. In many blades, the best procedure is to profile only and grind post-HT.
 
52100, forged from 1" round bar. Skinny for the winny.



 
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I am certainly not a kitchen knife expert but I personally like to either use differential heat treat methods or a San Mai blade construction for my kitchen knives. For me, it minimizes warp and should there be any, you can easily "tune" the blade back to true with the softer spine.
 
forged from 1 inch W2 round. S grind.
 

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My version is a two facet flat grind with a very shallow hollow ground in the middle right under the "pseudo shinogi line' and a convex lower 3/8 of an inch or so with everything thinned out and blended together.
nickandersonart said:
JDM what's an "S" grind? That one's new to me.


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Click to expand...
 
I'm curious why you all forge from such large stock sizes?
Is it because the stock costs less as a raw material?
I can certainly see the advantage if you are making an integral bolster design.

to the OP, I would start with thinner stock and forge the tang and forge a taper to the point
as Stacy said, I would profile and drill any holes and then grind all after HT,
 
jdm61 said:
My version is a two facet flat grind with a very shallow hollow ground in the middle right under the "pseudo shinogi line' and a convex lower 3/8 of an inch or so with everything thinned out and blended together.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I think I get what you're saying (had to look up Shinogi). I do like the slightly convexed bevels on kitchen knives quite a bit, personally


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Because some of us have bundles of Don Hanson's W2 round bar lying under our workbench? :D
HSC /// said:
I'm curious why you all forge from such large stock sizes?
Is it because the stock costs less as a raw material?
I can certainly see the advantage if you are making an integral bolster design.

to the OP, I would start with thinner stock and forge the tang and forge a taper to the point
as Stacy said, I would profile and drill any holes and then grind all after HT,
Click to expand...
 
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hey guys thanks for all the help. I just made one and loaned it to a friend that owns a resurant in town he thought it was to thick ( it is just under an 1/8th at the hilt with good distal taper ) how thin are you guys going.
here is a link to my Instagram its the first knife with the walnut handle https://www.instagram.com/bladesmith10/?hl=en
 
With the ones that I have made, I have gone like .09-.10 at the choil. I know of guys who go a lot thinner than that. I have heard some say that with a blade like a nakiri, you should go maybe as thin as like .06 as they typically do not have a true full height grind
 
cjd1980 said:
hey guys thanks for all the help. I just made one and loaned it to a friend that owns a resurant in town he thought it was to thick ( it is just under an 1/8th at the hilt with good distal taper ) how thin are you guys going.
here is a link to my Instagram its the first knife with the walnut handle https://www.instagram.com/bladesmith10/?hl=en
Click to expand...

For a full size chef knife, (1/8 inch with good taper) I would not go any thinner personally. The thickness he is likely talking about is behind the edge. It should be only .004 to .005 behind the edge before you sharpen. The s grind I have used actually hollows out the area behind the edge to further thin the geometry. I don't recall using or seeing a Japanese kitchen knife with a convex grind behind the edge. The convexity usually is from the shinogi (sp) line or a bit above toward the top of the spine. This forms the backward "S" grind where the spine is slightly thinner than the middle of the blade and the area below that is hollowed out a bit and the edge is the thinnest part. This grind is usually only on the bevel that is away from the chef's body to increase food release, the bevel closest to the body is usually closer to a full flat grind or can actually be flat with a concave bevel such as in single bevel Japanese knives.

This grind is very different than a "convex" grind that you would have on a bowie or an ABS testing blade.
 
For my next forged wa handle knife, I am sorely tempted to go the Shigefusa route and make a knife with a thick tang like 5 or even 6mm thick and scoop it out right in front of the tang/handle junction so it is like 3mm or less at the heel with a really wide blade. My gytutos have tended to be i the 240-250 range with a height of around 50-52mm, whereas a 270 Shig tends to be around 56mm which is almost as tales the big 10 inch Kramer as best as I can tell.
 
Here's a knife from Murray Carter. Less than .08. I just made 4 and started with .085 stock.
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Don Hanson III said:
Japanese style kitchen knives are usually very thin, well under 1/8" at the spine.
Click to expand...

For certain types and sizes of knives, that is absolutely true. However there are many sizes and types of knives that "well under 1/8 at the spine" is not accurate.
 
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