Japanese style knives? Need info and links.

Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
108
Hey Guys,

I you all don't mind can you share any info and/or web site links and even books I can buy that I can find out more info about making some traditional and more western styled Tanos and asian knives? I am looking for info on grinding the point, traditional handles methods like wood to use and were to buy ray skin or fake ray skin and how to wrap the handle, how to make a Tsuba even a simple one, were to buy the fitting on the end of handle and how to accualy put one together(pin, wood, wrap, ect. ect.)

Right now I am starting out so I am using a 8" disc grinder. I am going to start on a tanto pretty soon, it will be a very simple one with oak scales and brass pins and maybe a gaurd if I can make it work. But after a while I am hoping to make my favorite knife in more detail. Any pictures of custom or noncustom knives teaching or even showing how it is done would be great. Also any site that sells this kind of stuff would be a very helpful start. Even if one person can hit one question and the next person hit a different question would be great. Please post any hints on how to grind a tanto point, this is one the main things I need help with.

I really appreaciate all of the helping and informative people here, I finished my first knife only because of the help I got here. Thanks.
 
mpj13, go here: http://www.japanese-swords.com/

This site is probably the biggest supplier of Japanese cutlery parts. Bugei trading company sells some stuff as well but it appears that they order through Fred Lohman as well as being pitifully slow (2 months+ for ito).

Hugh
 
Thanks for the links. Anyone else have anything else? I can use all the site, links, info and tips on making Tantos and Japanese/Asian blades. I am trying to compile a load of info this and get it organized before I start to get into it too much. Thanks for the help.
 
Go to Bugei's forum, www.swordforumbugei.com. It already has a lot of info in there and some searching will turn it up. Fred Lohman's site is the best. Get his catalog. And the tanto point is a western style point that looks nothing like a traditional Japanese tanto. Get these two books, The Craft of the Japanese Sword by Leon Kapp, and The Complete Bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas(sp). These two books will answer a lot of quesions. un a search for Thomas Buck on Yahoo. It will turn up a page that will teach you how to wrap a handle in the traditional way. As far as making a tsuba, get a piece of steel in the shape and thickness you want, then drill holes in the center, then get a file to shap it the way the tang is. All this info should get you through your first semi traditionally made tanto.
 
...I am still working on finding the "stuff" needed in terms of reference material. There is some stuff around in learning to make Japanese "styled" stuff but the best way is to visit as many Japanese sword shows as you can and read the books suggested in the other posts. Below is a blade by Howard Clark in my mount, hardware, and saya (scabbard)

wakizashi.jpg


Working in the Japanese style will get you lots of flack from people who are self proclaimed experts. Some of these folks are intimidated by anyone who is not on an approved "list" of artist/craftsmen and will spend more time trying to control or stop you if they can rather than give you good advice.

hardware.jpg


This stuff is made of cheapo A36 steel from the hardware store using a drill press and files. Go to http://www.aoi-art.ab.psiweb.com/ and study every picture of original pieces you can. Then get a file (actually a bunch of files) and some copper and brass and steel and practice until you can make stuff that looks like the pictures.

Good luck and email me if you get stuck. Go for it...and have fun.
Brian
 
Thanks for the info and links again. It has been very helpfull. I love that Zebra wood, I have never used it but I would like to buy some. I think Koval or TexKnives

Galloglas,
That is a nice blade you have there. It looks awsome. Is it just me or do you get this tingling feeling when you see such awsome blades like on your blade and the ones on the link you put up. I saw some of the Katanas and it makes me wish I was born 700 years ago in Japan.

Did you make the fittings in the second pic? Do you use the small round files and the small triangle files? I have been thinking about trying to make some simple gaurds and Tsuba's. From what I can tell is when you put on the Habaki you have to kind of noch it out so the blade catches it, then I guess you would use the Seppa's to space it out. Do you have to use a seppa or is it just to act as a spacer and for looks?

Again, everyone who wants to please post any aditional info and links. Thanks a lot.
 
The ultimate Nihonto site is:
http://japanesesword.homestead.com/

This site will give you links to all the commercial sites, which will give you the best opportunities to see good pictures. The best quality site I can think off is www.ikkyudo.com, but there's only 20 blades or so. But they're good quality, and the pics are tip-top.

JD
 
Thanks for the compliments, mpj13. I can not take credit for the blade in the picture as it was made by Howard Clark. I only did the polish and created the hardware and the actual mount. Yes, I made all of the hardware in the second picture. The tsuba and fuchi/kashira (pommels) are heat colored in molten salt (blued) and are made from A36 steel.

Habaki are kind of a strange deal. They serve as a plug to hold the blade in the scabbard and seal out air and moisture. Mine are made in a non-traditional way as they are not forged onto the blade but built up in layers. They have "faces" on the inside that catch on the notches on the blade. The inside of the habaki fits the sword and the outside fits the scabbard. A picture is worth a thousand words..it's hard to describe if you don't have one in your hands.

habaki.jpg


Reverse engineering is a great way to learn any kind of craft. Get one of what you want to make and then tear it apart and take exact notes to help you create (or recreate) the object you desire. I learned to wrap handles in the Japanese style by unwrapping an old handle and video taping it. That and lots of practice and trial and error.

Yeah, I have lots of files...billions at last count. ;)

Making tsuba and such is a matter of getting material and carving out everything that does not belong. What is left when you are done is the object you desire. Seppa are just washers. Period. They are for show and to take up the slack in a mount. Just spacers.

Study hard and experiment heavily.

Brian
 
HOLY CRAP! Those are beautiful furnishings! totally awesome. they look very clean.

Brian, could you give us a little tutorial on how you make habaki? I want to play with habaki in the next year or two and it looks like you ar a GREAT guy to ask about them!
 
Every one,
Thanks for the aditional links.

Galloglas,
That's a good idea to take a sword apart first. I have a short sword I might can play with, it's not a totaly traditionaly made one though, it has a handle wrap it is a cheaper $50-$60 short sword.

Crayola,
I second that;)



Don't want the thread to die any more info and links from anyone is welcome. Thanks.
 
Habaki making the traditional way is well outlined in the book "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" which features the work of Yoshindo Yoshihara and his associated craftsmen in Japan. There are a lot of ways to make habaki but forging to the blade seems to be the fastest and yield the best results. See Bob Engnath's site for more proper ways of forging to the blade. I just don't seem to have very good luck in forging anything so I always find alternative ways of doing things.

My habaki way is to make billets of copper, brass, silver, or nickel silver (or combinations of metals) and then solder them together. It is not brain surgery but can be time consuming. Take a look at the pictures and you will see that it is just layers of thin stock stacked and soldered that have had a hole filed through them that fits the area of the blade that the habaki is going to come into contact with. Many folks have pointed out the deficiencies of this type of fitting but I have made quite a few of these now and they seem to be doing well on using swords and stuff. I beat up my originals with hammers and put them on blades and beat them to failure to see how good/bad they are. I still like my way better.


The tricks are to measure the blade carefully and lay out the area that you are going to cut out on the block *very* carefully. Develop your filing skills.

block.jpg



I start with sheet stock of the appropriate materials. I rough up the surface with 220 grit paper (the whole sheet). Flux the entire sheet and then tin it with solder using either the lead-free plumbers solder or some of the higher temp. stuff for gun smiths. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of solder I use but the higher the melting temperature the stronger the bond/joint will be when finished. Try to use the hardest/ highest melt temperature solder you feel comfortable working with as it will give the best strength. Try to use electric irons (Hot air guns for paint stripping are excellent) as gas torches leave behind oxide and black crap that always seems to get into the joints and leave voids and such in the final product. Cleaner is better!

Cut the tinned sheets into rectangular pieces that will be of the correct dimensions to form your billets. Make sure they are *really* clean and then make a stack of them about 1/4 inch high. Use paste flux on both sides of the plate as you stack them. Then get some spring type metal wood working clamps and take the rubber or plastic tips off of them. Clamp the stack of "chips" or plates with the flux between them with a couple of clamps. It helps if you leave the plates a little oversized to facilitate the clamps...you can grind the excess off later during finishing. Now take your hot air gun/or propane torch and heat the whole stack up until the solder melts. Don't do this in the living room and use a lot of ventilation with forced air....I'll give the "use a frickin' respirator" lecture later! When the stack has reached the melting temp. of the solder you will see the whole stack scrunch down as the spring clamps force the plates together and the excess solder from the tinning will squish out the sides. This is hot enough and additional heating helps not at all so get it out of the heat *NOW*.....hold onto one of the clamps with a pair of vice grips when heating. When it squishes hold it in front of a fan until it cools and then let it out of the clamps. When cool enough to handle, grind it or file it to get the faces of the block square and even and clean it up some. Don't grind it trying to hog off a lot of material so that the block gets too hot...it will delaminate either in your hands or it will weaken the solder joint and it will crack or break later. Solder gets weak if it is heated repeatedly to a high enough level. Keep it cool and slow when shaping, quench in water often. Make enough blocks like this to form the entire habaki...maybe even make a bunch if things are going well and it is workin' for you today!

Now measure the size of the area that this block is going to slide onto and transfer the measurements to the block face. Drill it, file it, whatever, until it just slides over the tang of the blade and fits as tight as possible. Don't cut big sloppy holes. Look at the pictures. The hole should fit the shape of the blade and all of it's contours as well as you can make it. I usually drill out as much as possible and then use needle files to get a good fit testing it by sliding it into place over the tang repeatedly. It's just like making a big, fat, seppa or washer. The more a blade tapers or curves in the area that you are mounting the habaki the more difficult and critical this fitting and filing becomes. I usually make the habaki block in 4 or 5 sections 1/4" or so thick. When you have cut and filed holes in all of the billets we just repeat the first process of sticking them together.

Flux the faces of the 4 blocks that have holes in them and then, one by one, slide them onto the blade until they all stack up. Use your spring clamps again to clamp all of the billets/layers together and then slide the whole 1" to 1 1/4" clamped blank forward and back to check the fit with all of the sections stuck together and seat everything. Then repeat the heating process until you see all of the layers squish together again and the excess solder get forced out of the joints between the individual billets. I always flux the entire block and run a little solder over the outside to be pulled into any gaps. Don't add too much excess solder while it's hot or it will get all over the inside of your nice filed holes and it will also run into the notches inside that fit onto the hamachi and munemachi ( the shoulders on the blade) and screw up your fit. These areas will fill up with solder and flux anyway but you will fix this after it is cool by filing and fitting once again.

Clean up the geometry of the block and square the faces like the picture. File the inside until it just fits nice and tight over the tang and onto the blade. Clean all of the flux up and look for gaps...you will always find little black or gray streaks in the solder joints. These can add "character" or they can be so wide and devoid of solder that you need to clamp, heat and flux/solder again. Experiment. You will probably screw up at least 2 or 3 of these before you get the heat and technique figured out. If you don't find this aspect of the craft exciting and educational, then it's probably not for you. Now you should have a solid block that fits the habakimoto (the area on the blade that accepts and holds the habaki) pretty well. Like the picture below!

fitted.jpg


Now all that is left is to file/grind the outside of the fitted block to the shape you desire. I use 50 grit belts on my grinder and bare fingers to sense the heat. Have a cold bucket of water close by and dip the block often. Repeated heating is *BAD* and will screw up the whole project. Remember, solder joints get weaker and weaker as they crystallize by repeated heating, expansion and contraction. Use a fresh sharp belt or, better yet, file it down to outside dimensions with files and diamond hones and stuff. 220 grit paper on a ceramic block and diamond files are great for this and surprisingly aggressive! Look at the pictures in my earlier posts for outside shape ideas. Better yet, buy yourself a Japanese sword (even a cheapo reproduction) and study the shape carefully. Go to every sword show you can. Buy a katana, wakizashi, or tanto with a decent habaki to use as a muse. Old WW2 Japanese swords are not all that expensive and the rusty, crappy ones are a steal. Buy one and look long and hard at the fittings and how they all go together.

Remember, this is not *THE* way to make a habaki. It's just *A* way and it is my way. Ain't easy but it's kind of cool to watch folks faces as they try to figure out how you did it. Blast me an Email if you get real stuck...I will try to help. And be careful of discussing any aspects of Japanese style sword/knife craft with collectors or officiators of real Japanese swords. They will usually get the hair up on their backs and get real pissy if they find that you are doing things "outside of the box". The true Japanese sword craft is extremely well defined and...well, rather anal retentive. Nihonto specialists don't seem to take kindly to folks adapting or experimenting with a centuries old style of mounting.

Good luck. Have fun and study hard and experiment heavily.

Brian
 
Thank-you Brian for your words and pics. That is awsome.

Last night I sat with a block of wood and a shoelace. I attempted tsuka-maki (excuxe spelling) and guess what? It is easier to do the diamond wrap than it looks! I didn't tie the ends off or anything yet. But, I have clear diamonds! WOHOO!
 
Excellent, Crayola!

Using the shoe laces as practice tsukaito is a great way to develope skill and not waste money on cotton or silk wrapping materials. It is the folding and layout that is tough to learn and shoe laces (other than the fact that they are much narrower than ito) fill the bill for expendable practice materials. I used to use the old broken bokken handles (wooden swords) from the sword dojo as wooden cores to practice wrap on. They have a curvature and approximate a "real" sword or knife handle really well!

tsuka.jpg


Don't forget to work on making hishigame, those little paper triangles that go under the wrapping and hold it in a nice, crisp diamond shape. If you are going to coat/saturate the wrapping with epoxy or super glue they don't matter as the adhesive will hold the diamond shape when dry. But if you leave the wrapping unepoxied with folded paper under the wraps it gives a real nice traditional kind of look.

And the diamonds will stay crisp and even even after some sweaty goon has mauled the handle while test cutting!:)

Keep it up, man. The Japanese style of knife/sword craft needs more dudes. Especially guys who can improvise and think oputside the box!

Brian
 
Brian,
Your posts are simply outstanding, as is your work.
Very informative,well written and great photos.
Pleasure to read them. Thanks for the information.
Should put out a book (or have you?)
Happy Holidays,Greg
 
I have a Boken that I practiced the Strider wrap on. I like that style of wrapping too.

The little paper triangle thingies (I need to improve on my nomenclature!) look to be harder to figure out than the wrapping! :) What else do I have to do on these einter nights though?

Steve Corkum uses Athletic shoe laces for some of his knives (I read that in a magazine, I think.) You get a flat cord thst is of good quality, and much cheaper than the silk cord. at $3 per foot, silk can get quite expensive, especially is you mess up! So, I'll be sticking to shoe laces for now.

I liek the japanese style for a zillion reasons, as do many. But one thing I really like is their neat ways of solving problems. Adding menuki makes a blade more attractive for sure, but it also adds a palm swell for grip. What a great idea! And with habaki, you solve the problem of what to do with the blade\handle transition, and you get a friction fit in the scabbard (saya.) What another great idea!

I also like the Japanese stuff for the colors. Japanese blades are very beautiful.
 
Hey Brian, is that blade by Howard Clark one of his secret recipe L6 blades? If it is then I had no idea you could develop a hamon like that on L6. Howard Clark over years of experimentation has developed a heat treat for L6 that leaves the back Bainite and the edge martensite.

Beatiful polish and furniture on that blade Brian!

Guy Thomas
 
Silent, I think Howard could develope a beautiful Hamon on a wooden broadsword. When I first starded making swords I'd spend hours reading his posts on every site I could find.
 
Hey there Brian, how about some tips on inserting Hishigame into the wrap. I am getting pretty good at the "modern-shoelace" method but I find that when the lace is pulled tight, the diamonds tend to elongate from belly to spine. I've thought about using hishigame for a more symmetrical, traditional look, but frankly I just don't know where to start.

Hugh
 
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