Jeff Randall, Sere 2000 v Military

Jeff,
I also must disagree with you as to "survival folder for wilderness". The folding knife has too many limitations to be a good choice for this role. We are reconciling with these limitations for carry comfort and discretion in urban environment. But it is not sense to narrow down your knife use limits in wilderness where appearance and concealability are not an issue.

For me "the survival folding knife for wilderness" would be very light one with pretty thin edge which would backup my general use fixed blade. I would use it for precise cutting only so the strength would not be an issue. SPYDERCO Endura (or even Delica) + Fällkniven F-1 + decent medium-sized axe would be my choice of equipment for trip in wilderness. If I should to give axe up according weight conditions I would choose a bit bigger fixed blade like Fällkniven S-1, but I wouldn't change lightweight backup knife.

Returning to Al Mar SERE 2000 - I also can't imagine how it can be a good cutter with it's spear point blade, pronounced false edge and pretty narrow main grind bevel. Yes, it could be very decent thruster but I really can't imagine it as at least near as good performer as Military when cutting. In my opinion this knife is designed for pretty different purposes.


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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
 
Hello Sergiusz,

It's nice to read all the different opinions about if the Al Mar Sere 2000 is a decent survival folder or not.

Well here are some of my thoughts:

I'd rather have a decent solid folder for doing the tasks I can't use my bigger fixed knife or even machete for, then a not so solid folder.
I once cut two fingers quiet badly when a knife closed on the top of my fingers gripping the handle, inspite of it being a knife with a locked blade. The emergency room doctor had a nice time putting stiches in my index and middle finger.
It took more then 2 weeks to heal to such a degree that I could use my fingers normal again.
I wouldn't have liked that to happen in an environment as the Peruvian jungle it certainly would have spoilt the fun perhaps even cost me my two fingers.

Your second and third choice the Fällkniven F-1 + decent medium-sized axe are also quiet interesting as I picture you hacking away at some vegetation with either the "rather short" F1 or swinging an "medium" sized axe weighing probably 2-4 pounds at the dense undergrowth.
The 4"-6" cutting surface of the axe will make clearing a path through the undergrowth certainly not a very easy task, possibly even a dangerous one.

My personal choise would be my Martindale Jungle knife 2 weighing only about 1 pound with some 12" of cutting edge and a nice decent folder.
I have a Benchmade AFCK (for 2 years) but for some time I also have the Spyderco Starmate and I would trust either of them as a "skinning and cutting up the monkey" knife
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.
I used both knives to skin snakes, rabbits, hares etc even a deer, I also reguarly use them in the kitchen.
In my opinion experience and familiarity with a tool and I consider knives tools is more important then "super coating # 12" or "super steel so and so".
I always carry a knife certainly at scouting where it will get some fairly heavy usage not only by me.

Everything else I could probably do with the Martindale.

The whole package weighs a little over a pound and a half including a selfmade sheath for the Martindale.

If you really want a 5-6" fixed blade my choice would be the Cold Steel SRK with kydex sheath it's nearly indistructable.

All three knives cost together less then $ 175 which makes it for me an unbeatable package quality/price wise. Weight wise I barely reach 2 pounds for the 3 of them.

You write about the Sere 2000:

"Returning to Al Mar SERE 2000 - I also can't imagine how it can be a good cutter with it's spear point blade, pronounced false edge and pretty narrow main grind bevel. Yes, it could be very decent thruster but I really can't imagine it as at least near as good performer as Military when cutting. In my opinion this knife is designed for pretty different purposes."

As I've not been able to test the Sere 2000 for myself I can't comment on it, I wonder if you have tested it yourself,if not I think we have to trust somebody who makes his living from going to places that I (perhaps even we) can only dream off.

As soon as I have the money to buy me a SERE 2000 and it's available I will get one and do my own tests, they however won't ever reach what Jeff has subjected the Sere 2000 to in the Peruvian jungle.

By the way I have an Spyderco Bill Moran fixed blade knife (old model, leather sheath) with a VG10 blade that will outcut everything I currently own with the exception of a my large Sebenza's blade, who's extremely fine hollow grinded blade however loses it edge faster.
The VG10 makes for a very sharp edge that stays sharp quiet some time under usage and best of all is relatively easy to maintain compared to e.g. CPM440-V.

Best regards from Holland,

Bagheera
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[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 08-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 08-14-2000).]
 
Bagheera,
Speaking about wilderness I could add that not a whole world wilderness are Amazonian jungle. Can you imagine whacking down dry Siberian (or Canadian) pine about 25-30 cm in diameter with large knife or machete?
Some thoughts about wilderness and a main idea "tough guys are going forwards chopping all on their way" I have shared here so it is no sense to repeat. Maybe I exaggerated with proportion 100 meters against 10 kilometers but slightly only
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As to SERE 2000 knife, I have no intentions to praise it or to cut it off because I have never held it. All I expressed is only my opinion based on photos I saw and some experience with knives. And according this experience it certainly is not the knife I would choice for trip in wilderness. For me SERE 2000 looks much more like folding fighter, especially believing folks who said it grips very comfortably and securely.
However your experience with wilderness can be quite different and fighting or survival knife conception also. We are meeting here just to express our opinions and to defend our conceptions, right?
smile.gif

 
Hi Sergiusz, Jeff, all,

Jeff I took a good look at my a** and yep it's true what you said.

Sergiusz, I should have been a little more carefull in my reply and for that my humble appologies it was not my intention to attack you (anyhow I couldn't because I still have no AM Sere 2000
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)


Sergiusz, your absolutely correct in saying that "not a whole world wilderness are Amazonian jungle".

I can imagine wacking away at a dry Siberian (or Canadian) pine about 25-30 cm in diameter with my machete
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and I would prefer your medium sized axe (I personally own a small forest axe by Gransfors and it's used often when out with the scouts) but would not object having a chainsaw around
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I can find myself with your view about rather going around some dense undergrowth then going through it and I for sure don't see myself as a "tough guy going forwards chopping all his way through" I value my sweat
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and have learned "the hard way" in the 43 years I've walked on our planet.

You write: "As to SERE 2000 knife, I have no intentions to praise it or to cut it off because I have never held it. All I expressed is only my opinion based on photos I saw and some experience with knives. And according this experience it certainly is not the knife I would choice for trip in wilderness. For me SERE 2000 looks much more like folding fighter, especially believing folks who said it grips very comfortably and securely.
However your experience with wilderness can be quite different and fighting or survival knife conception also"

Yep, although there's not much wilderness in Holland I have been very active at scouting for a long time I'll take a "comfortable and secure grip" on a knife anyday as I've had many knives fail on this aspect causing unwanted accidents with not only with myself but a lot of Scouts during past years.
A "Survival knife" for me means one that I always can carry on me and one that fits my hand like a glove and minimizes the possibility of hurting myself when conditions are less optimal when I have to use it.
A positive grip and "bumps" to prevent me from accidentally slipping on the blade are very important to me.

Sergiusz you say: "We are meeting here just to express our opinions and to defend our conceptions, right? "

Sergiusz, absolutely right and I expressed my opinions, perhaps only a little to strongly, but as Jeff said opinions are like A**holes everybody has one only my hemorrhoids must have been acting up yesterday
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.

I'll try writing an short impression on the Sere 2000 when the knifeshop I talked too get's some more and I have the Dollars to buy it.

Cheers,

Bagheera




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Well...I've held back on giving my opinion on this knife because...I DON'T HAVE ONE!
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Hoodoo

Why dost thou whet thy knife so earnestly?

The Merchant of Venice, Act IV. Scene I.
 
Serguisz, concerning heavy brush cutting while "wilderness travel", I have done it nummerous times on woody vegetation for a number of reasons; as well it is *very* common in Malyasia because the forest is dense, according to people who live there who I am friends with.

It is not like you take a blade and cut 1 km in a straight line like a horse with blinders on, you just use the blade when you are avoiding things that are much more difficult to cross than removing some vegetation.

I would rather make my way through a 30 ft dense area, doing some cutting along the way than try to cross a boghole or walk the 1km or so around it checking very carefully the whole time so as to avoid pitfalls. And of course with multiple people it is the one in the front that does most of the work so you just switch places ervery so often.

Returning to Al Mar SERE 2000 - I also can't imagine how it can be a good cutter with it's spear point blade, pronounced false edge and pretty narrow main grind bevel.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts, thick primary grind and low curvature, not a good combination for high cutting performance. To me it looks like a "Tactical" folder. Does anyone have any specifics on the edge geometry? Maybe the edge is ground really thin compared to the Military?

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by JeffRandall:
well....you know what they say....opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one
Click to expand...
Well said, Jeff. But, I have to add mine.... forgive me, please...

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
About the ease of sharpening, ok I can see 440V being more resistant to metal removal, but what about the greater edge retention of the Military allowing less frequent sharpenings?
Click to expand...

This is something that continually defies my comprehension.... not just from you, Cliff, but everyone that talks of the "MILITARY". Of all the knives I have, consisting of: custom(c) and factory(f) ATS-34, (f)ATS-55, (c)D2, (f)BG42, (f)VG10, (f)M2, and Talonite.... 440V is the easiest to remove the metal from, and requires the most frequent sharpening, in my use. Good thing it sharpens easily.

Sorry for venting... it's been a long week.

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iktomi
 
Well, I just got a new folder, so I'm finally in a position to contribute my two cents. :-)

I generally don't carry a "survival folder." When I am in the wilderness I generally carry four knives -- a chopper, either a machete or bush knife, depending on the area, strapped to my pack; a salami slicer (around a four-inch fixed blade, nowadays usually a puukko) on my belt; a Wenger SAK with a four-inch locking blade and a saw, in my pocket; and a neck knife (usually a REKAT Hobbitt Utility), in case I am ever *really* in trouble.

But all this discussion gave me a really good excuse to buy a new knife. :-) So I just got, as my "survival folder," an MOD Trident. This is, in my opinion, an outstanding general hard-use folder. It has a smooth action, and you can both open and close it one-handed. It is designed to stay in your hand even if you get really wet. It has a rubber-like (Kraton?) insert in the handle, and retention ridges at both the pivot and butt ends of the handle. It has thumb ridges at the back of the blade for applying downward cutting pressure. The retention ridges at the butt of the handle are positioned just right for your thumb in reverse grip. The blade locks up solid, and the action is very smooth. The blade is about 3.5" long, which makes it easy to carry in your pocket, and not too long for regular urban carry. The blade is a drop-point, but the center axis is thicker, like a spear-point, making the blade seem very sturdy. It has no false edge; in fact, the back of the blade is thick enough to pound on with a baton without worrying about either the baton or the blade. This is a very solid knife.

So, I am going to spend some time hiking in the White Mountains in New Hampshire, and I will put my Trident in my pocket and see how it works out.

But now I know what my new daily carry is. :-)

[This message has been edited by Walks Slowly (edited 08-17-2000).]
 
Cliff,

I played with one of the SERE 2000's a week ago, just now posting.

I think your idea about thinner at the edge is correct, I compared the edge of the SERE with the edge of my Starmate, and the SERE edge at the shoulder was almost half the Starmates thickness. And thinner blade stock too if I remember correctly.

Speakng to comfort, the SERE is thicker, near to twice, with plenty of contours, nicely rounded.

Not a bad knife, but it has thumb studs, so, no thanks.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

My review of the World Survival Institute, Chris Janowsky survival knife, the Ranger.

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"Many are blinded by name and reputation, few see the truth" Lao Tzu
 
ROckspyder :

440V is the easiest to remove the metal from, and requires the most frequent sharpening, in my use.
Click to expand...

440V has the ability to be a very strong and wear resistant steel. This of course depends on how it is heat treated. When you sent yours back did Spyderco do an edge retention test on it?

Marion :

I compared the edge of the SERE with the edge of my Starmate, and the SERE edge at the shoulder was almost half the Starmates thickness.
Click to expand...

Well that explains the relative high cutting ability. I would be curious about the durability.

-Cliff
 
I recently sold my Spyderco Military in CPM 440V because I found I could not get it as sharp my Benchmade 710. I also found it did not hold the edge as long. I also did not like the relatively large handle compared to the blade.

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Kevin Miller
My Personal Interests Page
kevinandtrish@sympatico.ca
Look to the Lord and His strength, seek His face always.
 
Kevin :

I recently sold my Spyderco Military in CPM 440V because I found I could not get it as sharp my Benchmade 710. I also found it did not hold the edge as long.
Click to expand...

Spyderco changed the heat treat on their 440V knives awhile back significantly, it would be informative to know which heat treat is giving which performance as there seems to be two basic camps on how the blades behave.

I also did not like the relatively large handle compared to the blade.
Click to expand...

I actually liked that aspect.

-Cliff
 
There were a few versions. The first was I think ATS-34. There was also of course the 440V model. I am not sure if all 440V's got the soft heat treat or were some at the 60-61 RC level.

-Cliff
 
Hello,

one of the 710 axis lock in M2 steel have been used for a long sojourn in the mighty Rain Forest of the Amazon with french special forces without any problems.
Some of these people were using Douk Douk and Opinel also...

One of them is using a Spyderco Military as his main diving knife for a year now...

The mind is keener than any sharp tool, no?

cheers,

JM
 
Just because its free....... I'll chime in with some comments.

I really can't imagine surviving the ravages of the wild with a folder. I love folders, but they are quite limited in ability. I was in the mountains a couple weeks ago, chopping down 3-inch cedar saplings. I had a large Sebenza folder on me, as well as a comparatively inexpensive Buck Big Sky fixed blade. I quickly gave up on the Sebenza and used the Buck. No matter how good a folder is, it just isn't made for chopping. Cutting is one thing. Chopping is something completely different. From my experience in the outdoors, I do a whole lot more chopping than I do cutting.

Most of my outdoor activity is in the Adirondacks, where the wilderness is still recovering from the logging industry. That means that I deal with huge amounts of low growth trees and bushes. The ultimate for me would probably be a machete for primary use, and a small fixed blade as a backup.

If I did have to choose a folder under $150.00 for outdoor survival, it would be my PCKS Buck 110, with partially serrated BG-42 blade. Or maybe my Buck 560 with the same BG-42. You may think I’m crazy or a liar, but they easily out cut my large Sebenza and my Military. It’s not even a fair contest.
 
The SERE2K is really nicely done; I like everything about mine except for the blade shape. For my uses (I don't stab peopple that often) I would prefer a more usable shape akin to the Syderco Wegner. Other than bladeshape, the SERE2K does rock!

I had a Military and it was a good tac Folder and decent slicer, but i would not put it in a class with the SERE2K as a wilderness/survival folder.

My RukSack or Sebenza or Talon makes my camping slicer while the real chores go to the Project I, Project II or one of the Busses. Just like a boy should not be called upon to do a man's job, the great outdoors, where the sheeple fear to roam, is full tang fixed blade territory.

Back to the point, the S2K is a great knife but the blade shape could have been different if a usable outdoorsman's knife was the thought.
 
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