http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218354
In regard to Jerry Busse's post noted below, he states the following:
"I am often asked why Busse Combat is overlooked and not written about in Tactical Knives Magazine. Hmmmm. . .. After reading this kind of tripe, can anyone really wonder why we are just not that anxious to send our knives in for objective evaluations?"
I think the main reason Busse are not written about in Tactical Knive Magazine's is because they are a 100% utility knife. The point is not correct for military people. If I wanted a tactical fighting knife my first choice would be a Mad Dog ATAK or a Ka-Bar.
If I was going camping and wanted a utility knife the best would be a Busse.
However, the Becker #7 obviously has Busse worried, here is a knife in the Busse class for 1/3 to 1/4 the price. Busse steel is better, but is it really that much better, I doubt it.
I think Busse is a smart company. They limit the supply of their knives so the price increases. They are making lots of money. In fact, Becker #7 and the Swamp Rat are copying their designs, due to the high demand.
About Mr. Busse stating they do not like to give out their knives for independent testing, I find this laughable. I note that Doc Woods is allowed to test Busse and he is a non-arms length person as he is on the Busse payroll. Is someone who is financially affiliated with Busse Objective and Independent. It is ridiculous.
What Jerry Busse really means is we do not like to give out our knives for objective testing, but we will give out our knives for testing to someone who is a non-arms length person!
I would be interested to see more independent testing of the Busse #7 & #9, in particular against the Becker and Swamp Rat #7 & #9.
It would not surprise me if Busse would win the competition, but the fassad of them being worth the extra money would be broken and Busse sales would drop and the competition's sales would increase. I think the three knives noted about are allot closer in quality in all facets than Busse cares to acknowledge.
Read the post at the Camillus forum by "Knife Outlet" called:
"Becker - A Busse Killer"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121777&highlight=becker
I found that thread to be fascinating. Notice how the Busse moderator suggests the thread be deleted. NOTE: this is on the Camillus forum......Laughable
Comments welcome,
Leather
----------------------
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194037&highlight=becker
Jerry Busse
Moderator
Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Wauseon, OH
Posts: 1082
"You are taking Busse print ads as gospel." - Anthony Lombardo
Mr. Lombardo,
You certainly do not have to take our print ads as gospel. . . or our video. . . .or what hundreds of over-satisfied customers have posted about Busse knives on these forums, or what we might tell you over the phone, but you DO have to take our LIVE performance demonstrations as gospel. Thats why we have done them. It is also important to note that our live demonstrations surpass our print ads claims. If, and when, the day comes that another manufacturer in our industry attempts to duplicate our performance tests with one of their knives in front of a live audience, then you will be able to take their results as gospel also. Of course, there is NO OTHER MANUFACTURER who has done this, or even attempted to do this, as of this date. Do you wonder why? We dont. We have tested plenty of our competitors blades and we completely understand why they choose not to do live performance testing.
I admit that Im a bit confused by the tone of your post. You seem to be fairly irritated that someone might prefer our knife over the one that you have recommended. Why is that? As a writer for Tactical Knives, do you think that publicly showing your bias is a good thing? You clearly do not enjoy what could be deemed to be typical consumer anonymity. If you did, you could say anything that you wanted and it would be of a lesser consequence. However, to make statements of this sort while being recognized as a writer and contributor to one of the leading publications in our industry, not only undermines your credibility, but does little to bolster the credibility of Tactical Knives Magazine. Your opinions, carry with them a certain level of clout due to your relationship with the magazine. It is a fact, that being a published author on knives, your statements carry with them a greater ability to either lead or mislead those who read your posts. It is because of this that I am responding to what you have written.
Not only are many of your statements unsupported but they are irresponsible as well.
For example, heres gem from your keyboard,
"Food for thought. If it were twice as tough as lets say 1095 it could be .100" and be just as tough as a .200" thick 1095 knife(pretty tough). " --- Anthony Lombardo
Are you serious? How do you define tough? Did you consult a metallurgist before making this statement? This does not appear to be a very well informed statement to make on your part.
Heres more:
"If the steel was really THAT MUCH BETTER, why it so thick at the spine?" Anthony Lombardo
What are you talking about?. . . I am unable to ascertain what being THAT MUCH BETTER has to do with how thick the stock is. Do you know? Can you explain yourself? Again, I must inquire as to whether you are serious? If so, then why dont you post something like this on one of the gun forums, If a .460 Weatherby Magnum was really THAT ACCURATE, why is the bullet so heavy? Does this make any sense to you? I hope not.
Theres more:
After all, if the GV6H scales ever come off my BK7, at least I can wrap the Becker handle and have a functional knife. After the rubber melts/tears/pulls off your BASIC 7, what do you have left? --- Anthony Lombardo
What you have left is a large, integral tang that runs the full length of the Busse Basic handle, within ¼ of the butt, that can be wrapped as easily as the Becker. In fact, we have done extensive field testing with the bare tang on the Basics to make sure that the knife could still be used effectively without a handle and without being wrapped. That is why our blade handle juncture is radiused and not sharply angled like so many other hidden-tang knives. We have also, never had a Busse Basic returned for a replacement handle. If, however, a handle does need to be replaced, our warranty covers it. We are the only manufacturer who puts an unlimited lifetime warranty on a rubber handle. Resiprene C (Busse Basics handle material) is NOT kraton. We would not use or guarantee a kraton handle. It is also important to point out that the Busse Basic handles are sealed around the tang. They are not hollow and they do not take on water because of this feature.
I cannot for the life of me see where you think that irresponsible and misleading statements like those made in your post can be anything less than a complete disservice to your good friends Ethan Becker and Will Fennel. I also cannot see where Camillus would be very excited about being promoted in this way.
If you want to say great things about the Becker line, feel free to do so. I think they are a great value. I like the knives and I like the man who designed them. However, if you must degrade the Busse Basics in order to try and build up the Beckers, then perhaps you should reevaluate your approach.
I am often asked why Busse Combat is overlooked and not written about in Tactical Knives Magazine. Hmmmm. . .. After reading this kind of tripe, can anyone really wonder why we are just not that anxious to send our knives in for objective evaluations?
If you have issues with either our knives or myself, I would be glad to discuss them with you off-line. You can reach me at (419) 923-6471. These public confrontations on the forums are like car accidents where everybody has to take a look. Some try to help out those who are a part of it, but most just sit back and feel lucky that they werent involved. Id like to be one of those who is not involved. If Busse Combat is misrepresented publicly, we will respond publicly. Lets do the gentlemanly thing, and take this off-line.
Regards,
Jerry Busse
In regard to Jerry Busse's post noted below, he states the following:
"I am often asked why Busse Combat is overlooked and not written about in Tactical Knives Magazine. Hmmmm. . .. After reading this kind of tripe, can anyone really wonder why we are just not that anxious to send our knives in for objective evaluations?"
I think the main reason Busse are not written about in Tactical Knive Magazine's is because they are a 100% utility knife. The point is not correct for military people. If I wanted a tactical fighting knife my first choice would be a Mad Dog ATAK or a Ka-Bar.
If I was going camping and wanted a utility knife the best would be a Busse.
However, the Becker #7 obviously has Busse worried, here is a knife in the Busse class for 1/3 to 1/4 the price. Busse steel is better, but is it really that much better, I doubt it.
I think Busse is a smart company. They limit the supply of their knives so the price increases. They are making lots of money. In fact, Becker #7 and the Swamp Rat are copying their designs, due to the high demand.
About Mr. Busse stating they do not like to give out their knives for independent testing, I find this laughable. I note that Doc Woods is allowed to test Busse and he is a non-arms length person as he is on the Busse payroll. Is someone who is financially affiliated with Busse Objective and Independent. It is ridiculous.
What Jerry Busse really means is we do not like to give out our knives for objective testing, but we will give out our knives for testing to someone who is a non-arms length person!
I would be interested to see more independent testing of the Busse #7 & #9, in particular against the Becker and Swamp Rat #7 & #9.
It would not surprise me if Busse would win the competition, but the fassad of them being worth the extra money would be broken and Busse sales would drop and the competition's sales would increase. I think the three knives noted about are allot closer in quality in all facets than Busse cares to acknowledge.
Read the post at the Camillus forum by "Knife Outlet" called:
"Becker - A Busse Killer"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121777&highlight=becker
I found that thread to be fascinating. Notice how the Busse moderator suggests the thread be deleted. NOTE: this is on the Camillus forum......Laughable
Comments welcome,
Leather
----------------------
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194037&highlight=becker
Jerry Busse
Moderator
Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Wauseon, OH
Posts: 1082
"You are taking Busse print ads as gospel." - Anthony Lombardo
Mr. Lombardo,
You certainly do not have to take our print ads as gospel. . . or our video. . . .or what hundreds of over-satisfied customers have posted about Busse knives on these forums, or what we might tell you over the phone, but you DO have to take our LIVE performance demonstrations as gospel. Thats why we have done them. It is also important to note that our live demonstrations surpass our print ads claims. If, and when, the day comes that another manufacturer in our industry attempts to duplicate our performance tests with one of their knives in front of a live audience, then you will be able to take their results as gospel also. Of course, there is NO OTHER MANUFACTURER who has done this, or even attempted to do this, as of this date. Do you wonder why? We dont. We have tested plenty of our competitors blades and we completely understand why they choose not to do live performance testing.
I admit that Im a bit confused by the tone of your post. You seem to be fairly irritated that someone might prefer our knife over the one that you have recommended. Why is that? As a writer for Tactical Knives, do you think that publicly showing your bias is a good thing? You clearly do not enjoy what could be deemed to be typical consumer anonymity. If you did, you could say anything that you wanted and it would be of a lesser consequence. However, to make statements of this sort while being recognized as a writer and contributor to one of the leading publications in our industry, not only undermines your credibility, but does little to bolster the credibility of Tactical Knives Magazine. Your opinions, carry with them a certain level of clout due to your relationship with the magazine. It is a fact, that being a published author on knives, your statements carry with them a greater ability to either lead or mislead those who read your posts. It is because of this that I am responding to what you have written.
Not only are many of your statements unsupported but they are irresponsible as well.
For example, heres gem from your keyboard,
"Food for thought. If it were twice as tough as lets say 1095 it could be .100" and be just as tough as a .200" thick 1095 knife(pretty tough). " --- Anthony Lombardo
Are you serious? How do you define tough? Did you consult a metallurgist before making this statement? This does not appear to be a very well informed statement to make on your part.
Heres more:
"If the steel was really THAT MUCH BETTER, why it so thick at the spine?" Anthony Lombardo
What are you talking about?. . . I am unable to ascertain what being THAT MUCH BETTER has to do with how thick the stock is. Do you know? Can you explain yourself? Again, I must inquire as to whether you are serious? If so, then why dont you post something like this on one of the gun forums, If a .460 Weatherby Magnum was really THAT ACCURATE, why is the bullet so heavy? Does this make any sense to you? I hope not.
Theres more:
After all, if the GV6H scales ever come off my BK7, at least I can wrap the Becker handle and have a functional knife. After the rubber melts/tears/pulls off your BASIC 7, what do you have left? --- Anthony Lombardo
What you have left is a large, integral tang that runs the full length of the Busse Basic handle, within ¼ of the butt, that can be wrapped as easily as the Becker. In fact, we have done extensive field testing with the bare tang on the Basics to make sure that the knife could still be used effectively without a handle and without being wrapped. That is why our blade handle juncture is radiused and not sharply angled like so many other hidden-tang knives. We have also, never had a Busse Basic returned for a replacement handle. If, however, a handle does need to be replaced, our warranty covers it. We are the only manufacturer who puts an unlimited lifetime warranty on a rubber handle. Resiprene C (Busse Basics handle material) is NOT kraton. We would not use or guarantee a kraton handle. It is also important to point out that the Busse Basic handles are sealed around the tang. They are not hollow and they do not take on water because of this feature.
I cannot for the life of me see where you think that irresponsible and misleading statements like those made in your post can be anything less than a complete disservice to your good friends Ethan Becker and Will Fennel. I also cannot see where Camillus would be very excited about being promoted in this way.
If you want to say great things about the Becker line, feel free to do so. I think they are a great value. I like the knives and I like the man who designed them. However, if you must degrade the Busse Basics in order to try and build up the Beckers, then perhaps you should reevaluate your approach.
I am often asked why Busse Combat is overlooked and not written about in Tactical Knives Magazine. Hmmmm. . .. After reading this kind of tripe, can anyone really wonder why we are just not that anxious to send our knives in for objective evaluations?
If you have issues with either our knives or myself, I would be glad to discuss them with you off-line. You can reach me at (419) 923-6471. These public confrontations on the forums are like car accidents where everybody has to take a look. Some try to help out those who are a part of it, but most just sit back and feel lucky that they werent involved. Id like to be one of those who is not involved. If Busse Combat is misrepresented publicly, we will respond publicly. Lets do the gentlemanly thing, and take this off-line.
Regards,
Jerry Busse
Just goes to show you that a knife doesn't need to feature a "wonder steel" or be built like a brick shithouse to offer what I consider high performance. Solid design and execution is what counts.