jig vs free hand

Freehand. I don't understand the use of jigs in grinding in any situation other than mass production of a single knife shape. Learn to make the grind you want by coordinating your brain and hands. That will allow you to control the grinder to make whatever you want.
 
bladsmth said:
Freehand. I don't understand the use of jigs in grinding in any situation other than mass production of a single knife shape. Learn to make the grind you want by coordinating your brain and hands. That will allow you to control the grinder to make whatever you want.
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I fully agree.
 
bladsmth said:
Freehand. I don't understand the use of jigs in grinding in any situation other than mass production of a single knife shape. Learn to make the grind you want by coordinating your brain and hands. That will allow you to control the grinder to make whatever you want.
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Yep, that's it!
 
Yep - free hand is the way to go! Yes, it is a bit pf a learning curve. Practice on cheap wood pieces (I get the pain stirring sticks at a hardware store like Home Depot). It's much cheaper, and because it' soft, it shows very quickly if you're using uneven pressure.
 
I'm very new to knifemaking, so take this for what it's worth.

After butchering a few blanks freehand, I bought Fred Rowe's Bubble Jig and have been very happy with the purchase. I'd call it more of a grinding aid than a jig.
 
marius rsa said:
I know but its just so difficult to get it wright I have scrapped 5 knives already
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I have suggested to other young knife makers buy some cheep Home Depot flat bar and practice on that. It is not as satisfying knowing that the blank will not become a knife but it is cheep. Be shur to clearly mark the soft steel.

The biggest advantage to free hand is you can make any size and shape knife on any grinder with out making a new Jig. Politically, free hand demonstrates a crafts men's skill wear a jig is associated with unskilled assembly line work.
 
dogwood dan said:
Politically, free hand demonstrates a crafts men's skill wear a jig is associated with unskilled assembly line work.
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We might have to agree to disagree here and I know this is a touchy subject sometimes because like anything else there are traditionalists and non traditionalists. For example I've been an avid archer for over half my life and shot competitively for years and there are tons of arguments about traditional archery (recurve, longbow, etc) as being a "purer" form of archery compared to the compound shooters and it can go even deeper into the type of equipment. But back on topic I don't think the use of a jig is associated to an assembly line or lack of a craftsman's skill. Woodworkers, even master craftsmen use various jigs to build things. Were there people who did similar work hundreds of years ago with wood that did it all by hand with hammers and chisels? Sure but doesn't mean it's the only or 'best" way? I don't think so. There are plenty of makers who use file guides or other guides to set their plunges or shoulders on knives. To me that is a form of a jig and people made knives for years without them doing it all freehand and making minor adjustments as you go. But I don't think one way is "better" than the other.

I realize a lot of makers learned to grind freehand and became and are excellent at it because at the time "that's the way it's done, had been for years". Just like there are traditional archers what can shoot an asprin out of the air, and a compound shooter cant. But doesn't mean that shooting traditionally is the ONLY way to shoot a bow. You gain a lot more accuracy in a much shorter period of time having sights on a bow than you do shooting instinctively. Instinctively requires a hell of a lot more time and dedication and consistent practice. Now I realize there is the issue of you might be "handicapping" yourself by using a jig or guide or whatever. But how many times are the vast majority of people who are making a knife going to find themselves in a situation where they aren't in their own shop and they HAVE to make a knife right then and there? Most people are working in their own place and whatever they use to make a knife is what they use. There are folks who CNC an entire knife does it make them any less of a craftsman? And I don't want this to come off an offensive but to me at least, and again, I'm FAR from a skilled maker but I think if someone is taking a bar of steel and transforming it into a useable knife they are a craftsman in their own right. Now granted there are different skill levels naturally but that applies to any craft or trade. With the end result being a nice looking and useable knife my opinion is it's more about the destination than the journey in that case. Doesn't matter if it's forged, stock removal, CNC, freehand, jig, or anything else. To take a hunk of steel and make it into a nice looking and useable tool is what matters not how you get it there. Just my .02
 
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leozinho said:
I'm very new to knifemaking, so take this for what it's worth.

After butchering a few blanks freehand, I bought Fred Rowe's Bubble Jig and have been very happy with the purchase. I'd call it more of a grinding aid than a jig.
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Using a Bubble Jig is not the same as grinding on/with a jig. The bubble jig is a tool to help you learn how to control the angle when grinding freehand. It doesn't do it for you, it just aids you.
I don't use one, but the folks who have seem to all agree that Fred's Bubble Jig makes getting the bevels and clips even a lot more likely for newer makers.
 
dogwood dan said:
Politically, free hand demonstrates a crafts men's skill wear a jig is associated with unskilled assembly line work.
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This cannot be true; there are 3 or 4 hundred knifemakers on this site that grind using my "Jig" and they are skilled; by anyone's standards. I don't believe the conversation should be about this fixture or that jig, it should be about the knife being made and the quality of that knife, no matter how it was created; unless using a 3D printer of course. :)

I don't think what I offer is the one and only way to grind blades; but I will say it pares down a learning experience that can take a considerable amount of time and a considerable amount of frustration and make it fun and within easy reach.

Just my 2cents, Fred
 
I've seen some pretty impressive grinds come from people using Freds "bubble jig" but I'm with
Stacy on this I would consider it an aid, or as Fred states a learning tool much more than a jig.
If I had to guess I'm quite sure fred can grind freehand or any other way he wants.
Ken.
 
We made need to define the difference between a jig and a guid as I understand it Fred's bubble guid is a teaching tool to help learn to make constant bevel grinds. As I see it comes down to a craftsmen might use a CNC machine but that dose not make a CNC operator a craftsmen. This gets to be a grey area see the grind Vs forge argument but At some point one moves from being a craftsmen to being a tool operator. So I will ask wear is that point and why?
 
In knifemaking, when I say freehand, I mean the grinding and shaping of the blade. I believe this task should be done with your eyes and brain controlling your hands. You may, or may not, use things to aid them, but the final outcome is controlled by you.

There are all sorts of things that we call a "jig", but are just tools to aid the knifemaker. They don't do anything by themselves, or confine the maker to any degree.
Carbide shoulder/plunge jigs, Bubble jigs, adjustable angle work rests, MAP arms, guard soldering jig, handle gluing jig, etc.

That is different from:
A filing jig that has a pre-set angle and can only stroke the clamped up blade at that one angle is a jig.....but it will not teach you how to file.
A hollow grinding jig with elevation wheels and depth of grind adjustments sets the hollow grind paramaters...but it won't teach you how to hollow grind.
A hinged grinding jig that clamps on the blade to cut plunges or bevels on the belt grinder won't teach you how to make these grinds.
A sharpening jig system that locks in the blade and controls the stone angle. (These have their uses, but still don't replace freehand sharpening skills.)
 
It's not what you use or how you get there but how good it is for the purpose it was made for. Frank
 
Frank Niro said:
It's not what you use or how you get their but how good it is for the purpose it was made for. Frank
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If we are only talking about the finished product I would agree with you, but the question was witch is better free hand or using jig's. This has answers that go beyond the finished product. If one free hands then they can make any thing, any size, on what ever tool they have. If one uses a jig they can only make what their jigs make for them on the tool the jig is made for. If someone wants to become a knife maker it is better for them to learn to free hand because it gives the maker more freedom to change tools and patterns. This is part of what separate custom makers from production knives, it also has to do with how craftsmen and makers define them selves compared to assembly line stile work.
 
Dan,

With your background in wood working I would think you familiar with fixtures/jigs like those used to turn out a beautiful Queen Anne drop leaf, gate leg table. I still have my patterns and jigs.
The time I spent at the craft taught me how to think, perfection, or what passes for human perfection. Its a mind set!
For me; Its the creative process itself that makes us really human. To limit the out come of that process by limiting the options, takes away from the creative process itself.

Happy grinding, Fred
 
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