Joe Houser - Update on Vertical Play Issue?

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pinnah

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A question for Joe Houser, or any other of the folks from Buck...

Any update on Buck's investigations on the vertical play issue that we discussed in November?


In November, RAZORBLADE started a thread about quality control issues with several new knives he had purchased.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...that-checks-the-quality-of-the-knives-anymore


In the pursuing discussion about quality control, inspection and design flaws (that allow items to pass inspection but to later fail under normal use), I noted that I had 3 recently acquired Buck lockbacks that started out with solid lock up but that developed vertical blade play.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11455243#post11455243

In fact, as I later clarified, I've had 6 Buck lockbacks, 4 of which have had vertical play, while 0 out of the 5 Opinels (that I've used harder) develop blade play of any sort.


In the thread, you suggested (via email to PlumberDv) that Buck wasn't seeing many returns on the issued being discussed in the thread and you wondered if people were just "living with it" with respect the problems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11455243#post11455243

Motivated by this, I donated (I did not and am not asking for any replacement) 2 of Buck lockbacks with vertical play.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11516018#post11516018

In private email and later in a post to the thread, Jeff Hubbard confirmed reciept of the knives and said that I/we would get an update on what failed once they completed the inspection of the knives. Jeff also confirmed that at some point in time, the internal bushings had changed from steel to (softer, smoother) bronze.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11570476#post11570476


Towards the end of that thread in the early December time-frame, we learned that RAZORBLADES had Jared (JAGcostomknives) do the repairs to his knives and that Jared had reported his findings to Buck.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11576121#post11576121
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11577045#post11577045
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-the-knives-anymore?p=11578820#post11578820



We're coming up on the 2 month mark now. I've put a hold on buying new Buck knives as my experience tells me they are likely to fail under conditions that my Opinels will not fail. I would love to begin to buy Bucks again but I really need to know that the vertical play issue has been addressed.

Can you offer any update?
 
I can say that Jeff Hubbard sent me a brand new 110 alaskan guide that was built november 28 2012(my birthday)and that 110 was everything it is supposed to be,i've been using it regularly and finally i think they have things back to what they had at one time when the knives were almost perfect in every dept.The new one has not developed a bit of blade play or wobble whatsoever after a lot of use.

I would also like to add Jag custom knives did a great job on my buck knives,and i've been using those steady with zero complaints as well,he really knows the buck 110 inside and out,his has remained rock solid during a lot of use out lobster fishing ,cutting bait,frozen fish,live bait,rope ,etc,still no play ,excellent cratfsmanship in his knives.
 
Joe was away on business for awhile and then was sick for sometime after returning home on the 11th. He may not even be back to work yet and if he is, I'd imagine that he's swamped due to his absence from his duties.
 
Plumberdv said:
Joe was away on business for awhile and then was sick for sometime after returning home on the 11th. He may not even be back to work yet and if he is, I'd imagine that he's swamped due to his absence from his duties.
Click to expand...

If he is like most he has 500 to 2000 emails waiting on his work computer!:eek:
 
Right. Which is why patience and always assuming the best is the only correct course in such matters. Add to this that Joe told us in RAZORBLADE's original thread that what Buck says about such issues takes internal review and coordination.

In this light, I recognize that I'm asking and re-raising a question that is non-trivial for Joe (or anybody else at Buck) to answer.

I'm thrilled to hear that RAZORBLADE had such a good outcome. I share his confidence in Buck. Buck didn't become Buck by making locking folders that loosen up. They'll figure it out.
 
Joe is back to work but has a lot to catch up on ...
this flu bug hit him hard and he is not recovered yea tho he is back at work
once upon a time I would have jumped in on this discusson with both feet and a dry turd in each hand
to defend some one sashing buck .. products or people
but
I was told that they DO want to hear of any issues...
I jest wish that all the posters now would try to not let it get personal as I once did..
the only vertical blade play I have ever had was were the back spring nock was not fully engaged
or was bent slightly.. generly from were a blade point was wedged in and pressure put on the handle
to cut through some thing tough... I used to do this to cut through conduit bundle straps ( steel straps that is )..

this is the slow equivalent of a slamming the back side of the blade to try to make the blade close
 
Yeah Dave,its not really considered bashing when its legitimately known that there is problems,and folks buying the products would like to know why there is problems..
 
Well, Joe spent some time today browsing the threads here and didn't have anything to say on this subject.

Is it that they haven't followed up on it or is it that they just haven't found what they consider a design problem? I wonder. :confused:
 
It's frustrating.

After an exchange of email with Jeff in November in which he confirmed receipt of the two Bucklite Max I donated, I followed up with him 4 times in email asking for an update about once every 2 weeks. I've gotten no response from him but I just chock that to the fact (as reported by Joe) that Jeff can't pass out information unless its coordinated with managment. That is entirely reasonable and to be expect, so I don't blame Jeff. It could be stuck way above him.

I tried to google Joe's email, found an address and included him in one of my requests for an update but the mail bounced, so that didn't work. I also sent email to him using the email submital form from the forum and never got a response. No telling though if that mechanism actually works or if he ever checks the address that form redirects to. I know I can't track each and every mail that comes through the externally accessible addresses that I help monitor for work. Just too much spam and junk.

Still, I'm getting to the point where the next step will need to involve just cold calling either Jeff or Joe at Buck to ask again for an update.

I've made it clear in every email I've sent that I'm not looking for replacements. But, I have stopped buying Buck lockbacks. 4 out 6 I've owned have developed vertical play, 3 significantly so. 0 out 5 of my Opinels have play of any kind and truth be told, I beat on those cheap French knives like rented mules.

It would be wonderful to get an update of some sort. I suspect the knives I sent in went into some sort of black hole though.
 
Well....let's see.....

It's Jan 29,2013.....what's that mean? We all just got to see the new Buck catalog for 2013. So everyone at Buck is neck deep building new product for sale. That rush will be hot for the next 3-4 month's, check back then. Sorry but the skipping record is getting old at least for me; the father of five kids....."are we there yet"!

jb4570
 
pinnah said:
It's frustrating.

After an exchange of email with Jeff in November in which he confirmed receipt of the two Bucklite Max I donated, I followed up with him 4 times in email asking for an update about once every 2 weeks. I've gotten no response from him but I just chock that to the fact (as reported by Joe) that Jeff can't pass out information unless its coordinated with managment. That is entirely reasonable and to be expect, so I don't blame Jeff. It could be stuck way above him.

I tried to google Joe's email, found an address and included him in one of my requests for an update but the mail bounced, so that didn't work. I also sent email to him using the email submital form from the forum and never got a response. No telling though if that mechanism actually works or if he ever checks the address that form redirects to. I know I can't track each and every mail that comes through the externally accessible addresses that I help monitor for work. Just too much spam and junk.

Still, I'm getting to the point where the next step will need to involve just cold calling either Jeff or Joe at Buck to ask again for an update.

I've made it clear in every email I've sent that I'm not looking for replacements. But, I have stopped buying Buck lockbacks. 4 out 6 I've owned have developed vertical play, 3 significantly so. 0 out 5 of my Opinels have play of any kind and truth be told, I beat on those cheap French knives like rented mules.

It would be wonderful to get an update of some sort. I suspect the knives I sent in went into some sort of black hole though.
Click to expand...

You can be assured that the e-mail link through the forum works, I contacted Joe a few days ago about the handle material (real or laminate) used by the custom shop and he responded by e-mail to me today. Within minutes of receiving that e-mail, he responded to the thread I asked about.

Perhaps you should just give it a rest. If and when they want contact, they know how to contact you.
 
Last edited:
As an update, I've received email from Joe. He reports that he's looking into the issue.
 
Plumberdv said:
Perhaps you should just give it a rest. If and when they want contact, they know how to contact you.
Click to expand...

Wow...IF the company that wants YOUR money decides to contact you they will...glad you're not in PR for my company.
It always seems to go this way, someone DARES to criticize Buck and the crap hits the fan. Dave, I normally truly enjoy your comments, but this incessant 'Buck is right' attitude is just wrong; Pinnah has raised a legitimate issue, DONATED knives to be tested and would just like an update, that's really not too much to ask.
 
Even though pinnahs is well..., uh..., you know... I definitely have to agree with russde.
 
Sorry about that. I can see where that could have been worded better. All I meant was that the issue may still be under investigation and nothing definate has come out of it yet. I don't think it does any good to keep hammering them for info that they may not even have at this point. I wouldn't expect updates when there may not be any updates available.

I'm sure that when Joe or Jeff have something to say about it, they will be back to follow up.
 
st8yd, I am a lot of things to be sure and can handle feedback directly. Won't be..., uh...., you know.... offended. ;^)

One thing I am not is a BCCI member, and I suspect that is a confounding issue regarding how my questions/opinions are viewed by some (not all) BCCI members including Plumberdv. That is, I suspect that if I were a BCCI member, my seeking of an update would be viewed differently.
 
pinnah said:
st8yd, I am a lot of things to be sure and can handle feedback directly. Won't be..., uh...., you know.... offended. ;^)

One thing I am not is a BCCI member, and I suspect that is a confounding issue regarding how my questions/opinions are viewed by some (not all) BCCI members including Plumberdv. That is, I suspect that if I were a BCCI member, my seeking of an update would be viewed differently.
Click to expand...

lol, I spelled it out as appropriately as I could ;-)

In regard to this circumstance I don't see what being a BCCI member has to do with it.

Often it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.
I also don't see the big deal about the donation of the knives as if it is a manuf. defect they will replace or fix them anyway.
 
pinnah said:
st8yd, I am a lot of things to be sure and can handle feedback directly. Won't be..., uh...., you know.... offended. ;^)

One thing I am not is a BCCI member, and I suspect that is a confounding issue regarding how my questions/opinions are viewed by some (not all) BCCI members including Plumberdv. That is, I suspect that if I were a BCCI member, my seeking of an update would be viewed differently.
Click to expand...

I disagree that being a BCCI member has any bearing on how criticism of Buck is resented. I am a Lifetime BCCI member, and I also experienced the same resentment if criticizing Buck products.

This is the "Buck" forum so the fact that the vast majority of participants are 100% loyal to Buck is no surprise.

Peter
 
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