Satrang said:
... I'll be glad educate you
I generally ignore rumors from anon sources, and need actual published facts. If anyone is curious as to what Satrang's posts are based on, a few years back a knife maker discovered that Busse had bought steel from the same place they did and started spreading the *RUMOR* that INFI was the same steel. The issue was never discussed with Busse and others like Satrang felt it was perfectly responsible to come on the internet and present it as a fact, without ever once actually checking with Busse to get his side or even considering that the steel could be used for something else, does Busse just make INFI blades, have you ever asked them do they do outside contracting to make other things.
I have heard a lot of rumors about how knives are made, custom knifemakers who don't actually grind their blades, who have them made production style by other people, who do really low end heat treating but claim otherwise (don't do cryo, single tempers, air quench in large batches, etc.) , who use low grade steels but say it is a high grade tool steel, etc. . The list goes on. I don't in general pay any attention to *rumors* or other "facts" that people are only willing to say in private or by anon means and are unwilling to do any fact checking.
Mike Turber noted when he started Bladeforums it was not intended for rumor spreading and several times said he would not participate in such discussions, it is too bad more people don't follow the standard he lead. And yes I did discuss this with Busse long ago after sending him some pictures of the most recent insane thing Pat would do with his knives. He thought it was amusing, which is it, but noting it in public, presenting it as facts, claiming a professional background while doing so - it probably doesn't amuse him much anymore.
Satrang said:
Here's the card I hoped I wouldn't have to play. I contacted Bohler in the past and they stated they had and were supplying K329 as is to Busse. Now, that may have changed in the present, but there was a time when the two were the same. The steel may have changed but the name remains.
Busse has used many steels, some in very large volumes. They bought a *huge* amount of 5160 a few years back, it ended up in blanks for Ranger Knives. They bought a massive amount of D2, it ended up in blades for Swamp Rat. They also did a huge steel comparison years back when they ran test blades in different steels. Busse also didn't always use INFI, some early prototypes were D2, they used A2 for a *long* time. None of this in any way links INFI to those steels - which would be obvious if you ever *used* the knives.
Steeldriver and Cobalt, it is *very* difficult to judge from the composition of a steel the performance except in a general sense. You can say for example generally that cobalt helps in hot hardness and cutting of abrasive materials (see Allen's book for example) but trying to say something like 3% of vanadium gives X% of wear resistance is impossible. If you check the tool steel reference books, often you can find equations for alloys which can be used to *roughly* gauge such effects but that is all they are, they don't replace the materials data, which is what you should use. Look at O1 and A2, these appear to be similar steels, go just by the composition and guess how they compare in strength, toughness and ductility, now look up how they actually behave which is *really* different.
Even very small differences can make *large* effects, vanadium in small amounts for example can prevent grain growth (the carbides are very stable to really high soak temps, 2250F and thus they pin the ausentite grain) and thus they can be a massive help to a maker by preventing oversoaking. The issue gets even more complicated because you have to consider not only what elements do alone, but with each other, the amount of Carbon and Cr in stainless for example has to be a very specific ratio to get the required high hardness for edge retention, the amount of free Cr for corrosion resistance, and all while getting very fine Cr carbides (the K2 type) to prevent edge degredation from tear out. This is achieved in AEB-L for example but not in other steels which are very similar.
-Cliff
