John Primble, Belknap Hardware knife?

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Okay, a question or two for the John Primble knowledgeable here. TLC, I recall you said you collect JPs didn't you?

Quoted here is the description of the knife.

THIS IS A 1970`S 3 BLADED JOHN PRIMBLE BELKNAP HDW. & MFG. CO. POCKET KNIFE.... THE MASTER BLADE TANG IS STAMPED; JOHN PRIMBLE BELKNAP HDW. & MFG.CO. THE TANG ON THE BACK OF THE MASTER BLADE IS STAMPED PATTERN # 5390, WITH A STAR SYMBOL...THERE IS AN OVAL SHIELD EMBEDDED IN THE FRONT HANDLE.

Yeah, I know I should do my research first, then buy, but this one just sort of grabbed me in the wee hours of the morning between sleeps. I'm sure I paid to much for it, but not enough to be too troubled and I think there may be a difference of opinion on what constitutes full, barely sharpened blades. Then again, I don't have a real reference for exactly what the original blades looked like. However, I like the blade shapes as pictured and if it is tight and snappy as claimed, it will work fine for me. Kind of like my wife and I. We aren't perfect, just perfect for each other.

Anway, I guess what I'd like to know is who actually made this knife? I understand that Primbles at that time were made by at least three different makers for Belknap. Too, what does the star indicate on the tang? Last, but not least, how was the quality of JPs at this time?

I haven't even sent the payment yet so obviously don't have any pics to post. Of course, since I can't play with it just yet, learning things about the knife and Belkap era John Primbles in general is the next best thing.

Thanks ahead of time,
Amos

 

[JD Mandrell]

Somebody call me?

It is a little older than the seller thought, that tangstamp was used from 1940 until 1968, it could still have been sitting in a store in the 70's of course, so they may think it was made then.

The star under the tang usually means it was a Camillus contract made prior to 1965, Primble knives with the "Belknap" tangstamp of the same era without the star were normally Schrade.

Primbles have been made by MANY different cotractors over the years.

Some of the ones I know of are:

George Wostenholm Cutlery
Roberson
H. Boker
Schrade
Schrade-Walden
Camillus
Case...(only "Baby Doctor" patterns very early on as far as I know)
Queen

Currently Blue Grass Cutlery owns the name and has contracted new John Primbles from overseas.

 

[knifeaholic]

With no pic its hard to give a full opinion....

In the 60's, John Primble pocket knives were made by Imperial-Schrade and by Boker USA. In my experience far greater numbers were made by Boker (like maybe 90% - an educated guess based on my own experiences).

Every one that I have seen with a star on the reverse was made by Boker. I could tell quickly from a pic, based on the appearance and the tooling.

As for the Schrade-made John Primbles of the period, there were two "grades"....some were made as mid-grade knives using the same tooling as fdor the Ulster pocket knives of the period...and some were made using the higher grade tooling as used for the Schrade Waldens of the period.

I have seen Primble catalog pages from the period, and you will see the thre different styles mixed up, all of course with the John Primble trademarks. Intrerestingly enough, the higher grade Schrade made knives were significantly more expensive than the Boker USA made knives for similar patterns.

 

[knifeaholic]

Somebody call me?

It is a little older than the seller thought, that tangstamp was used from 1940 until 1968, it could still have been sitting in a store in the 70's of course, so they may think it was made then.

The star under the tang usually means it was a Camillus contract made prior to 1965, Primble knives with the "Belknap" tangstamp of the same era without the star were normally Schrade.

Primbles have been made by MANY different cotractors over the years.

Some of the ones I know of are:

George Wostenholm Cutlery
Roberson
H. Boker
Schrade
Schrade-Walden
Camillus
Case...(only "Baby Doctor" patterns very early on as far as I know)
Queen

Currently Blue Grass Cutlery owns the name and has contracted new John Primbles from overseas.

As far as I know, they used the same tang stamp through the 70's. Again I can only say this from personal experience having been collecting knives since 1973 and in the 70's I was in an area where Primbles were very common. I also can say that I have never seen a Primble, at least a post-WWII example, made by either Robeson or Camillus.

Case did make a very few, circa 1940's. I have seen the C661050 green bone swell center folding hunter, 5265 folding hunter, 5391 whittler, and 5279.

Queen, Utica, and Colonial have all made Primble marked knives in the years after Belknap quit business and the trademark was acquired by Bluegrass. Camillus has also made some of the very recent ones and a lot are now being made in China.

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Well, at the risk of embarrasing myself, here is the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...10020266389&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1

I usually don't deal much with fuzzy pic or MO only offerings, but as I said, this was wee hours and for some odd reason really pulled at me.

Thanks for the responses so far. Maybe the limited pics will help.

 

[knifeaholic]

Well for that price you probably did ok. From those pics it look like a Boker made 3-3/8" stockman with grooved bolsters and delrin handles. As i said they made these the same way from the early 60's (when they switched from bone to delrin) to the mid to late 70's. No way I know of to nail the date down closer than that.

 

[JD Mandrell]

As far as I know, they used the same tang stamp through the 70's.

They may have, but the most common date given in my reference books is 1968.

I also can say that I have never seen a Primble, at least a post-WWII example, made by either Robeson or Camillus.

I believe the Roberson stuff was under the Pine Knott name so it would have been pre-ww2.

"The Standard Knife Collector's Guide, Fourth Edition 2003
Roy Ritchie and Ron Stewart" is who lists the ones with the star
as being Camillus, but to be honest I have 2 primbles from that era
with a star and they don't seem to be made by the same maker. On one the quality is much higher.

Case did make a very few, circa 1940's. I have seen the C661050 green bone swell center folding hunter, 5265 folding hunter, 5391 whittler, and 5279.

OK, good to know. I have only seen the Baby Doctor personally, so I was reluctant to say for sure if they made more. :thumbup:

 

[JD Mandrell]

Well for that price you probably did ok. From those pics it look like a Boker made 3-3/8" stockman with grooved bolsters and delrin handles. As i said they made these the same way from the early 60's (when they switched from bone to delrin) to the mid to late 70's. No way I know of to nail the date down closer than that.

This we do agree on, I have a Peanut from this same series same grooved bolsters and Delrin scales. I gave about the same for mine, I rarely carry a Peanut since they are so small, but it sharpened up pretty good as a user.

EDIT:dragged out a picture. 4927 Red Delrin Peanut

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Wow, fast. Thanks again. This one will fill a hole in my collection as I don't have any stockmans currently. Funny, my favorite pattern and about the only one I carried years back was the stockman. Now, coming back from lockblades, thumb studs, and a huge SAK, I've found I prefer several other patterns over the stockman. At least now I will have at least one to represent the pattern.

 

[JD Mandrell]

Knifeaholic, while were on the topic, waht are your thoughts as to a maker for this Primble, It's a Belknap HDW & MFG CO. tang model 920 green bone stockman.

Boker is the first name that jumps out to me when I handle it, but I have "900" model Primbles that are Shrade/Walden" also, but not with grooved bolsters like this one?

 

[Bob W]

I'm sure I paid to much for it...

If the blades are not loose that'd be an excellent carry knife, since the knife is used and sharpened. And $15 certainly isn't too much to pay for a good-quality user.

-Bob

 

[waynorth]

I have Schrade stockmen that look an awful lot like that knife!! Jigging, shield, bolsters, shape of handle are all real close!!

 

[knifeaholic]

Knifeaholic, while were on the topic, waht are your thoughts as to a maker for this Primble, It's a Belknap HDW & MFG CO. tang model 920 green bone stockman.

Boker is the first name that jumps out to me when I handle it, but I have "900" model Primbles that are Shrade/Walden" also, but not with grooved bolsters like this one?

Thats definitely a Schrade....typical distinctive Schrade bone and jig pattern...classic Schrade tooling that later became the 897UH.

As far as tang stampings and when they were used...I tend to believe my own experiences of what I have seen rather than knife books. You will find over time that there are a LOT of errors in knife books.

The peanut that you posted, definitely a Boker made specimen, again, distinctive Boker tooling that can be verified by looking at 1960's era Boker catalogs.

If you have a Primble knife that you think was made by camillus, I would love to see a pic...its certainly possible but I have never seen one that matched Camillus tooling.

And Pine Knots are another interesting story. Based on my experience there was a "premium" grade of Pine Knot branded knife - these are pretty rare and they included "JW Price" as part of the tang stamping. The very few that I have seen were high grade knives with bone handles, they did not remind me of Robesons from the tooling or bone though. Definitely Pre-WWII.

Then there was a "lower" grade of Pine Knot, still pretty rare but more common than the JW Price marked knives. These IMO were definitely made by Imperial, 1920's to 1930's era, based on the ones I have owned and on the catalog pics that I have studied (and I own 50 or 60 antique Imperial knives from that time period for comparison).

There is also a brand "Berkshire Cut Co"...I have heard that this was a Belknap brand but I have never seen it in a catalog so not sure.

And the most desirable Primble marked knives are the ones marked "John Primble India Steel Works"....PreWWII for sure and I believe used from early 1900's to about the 1930's.

 

[waynorth]

Knifeaholic, while were on the topic, waht are your thoughts as to a maker for this Primble, It's a Belknap HDW & MFG CO. tang model 920 green bone stockman.

Boker is the first name that jumps out to me when I handle it, but I have "900" model Primbles that are Shrade/Walden" also, but not with grooved bolsters like this one?

Here's a Schrade Walden 899. I guess it's a 899 because of the punch, as opposed to the 897uh.

 

[waynorth]

The price is nice! Don't forget to show us "unfuzzy" pics!

 

[JD Mandrell]

Wow, that sure does look just like mine!

That would make sense, the "921" and "908Y" John Primbles I have, I had already felt were Schrade and Schrade/Walden, so it would make more sense that the "920" was also.

EDIT:Looking at them now, I am not sure about the "921" it's a very tiny stockman, and the Delrin scales have the same jigging pattern as the peanut?????

Knifeaholic, I don't have any Primbles that I am sure were Camillus, but again several books list Camillus as having made some???

 

[waynorth]

TLC, that 899 is a hair over 3 9/16" long. Is that the same as yours??

 

[JD Mandrell]

TLC, that 899 is a hair over 3 9/16" long. Is that the same as yours??

Yep, dead on, I'm sure it's the same knife. Does yours have a Turkish Clip main blade?

 

[waynorth]

Yes it does. I think you can tell, it lies in there hardly projecting above the handle. It also has a punch. I'll post a pic w. the blades open. Can you do the same TLC?

 

[waynorth]

Here are the blades open. Sorry about running away with your thread, Amos ! See what you started. . . Again! !