Joining The Forces

[Vivi]

Lately I've been talking to some of my friends who are in the Marines, the Guard etc. Most of them so far seem to recommend the Guard. I've thought about serving at different points in my life, but I'm pretty interested in it right now.

What I'd like to know is how the different branches compare in terms of training, where I'm likely to be deployed and the types of positions available. For instance I'm A+ certified in computers, so if I could find somewhere where the Navy could use and further develop my computer skills I thought that might be a good route to aim for.

Something I'm very interested in doing is re-constructive work for other countries. Helping them build up schools and hospitals, securing areas and helping out the population in general.

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there, but aren't bound to serve at all at that point.

Really my only reservation at this point is I find it difficult to have complete faith in the administrative positions our leaders make, like remaining in Iraq. I know questioning orders would not be tolerated at all, so I don't want to go into this still feeling that way about the political situation. It would be a lot easier if we had Muslims bombing us every day trying to destroy our country and I saw a clear need for the defense of our country.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Something I'm very interested in doing is re-constructive work for other countries. Helping them build up schools and hospitals, securing areas and helping out the population in general.

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there, but aren't bound to serve at all at that point.

Join the Peace Corps for social work. The armed forces are for projecting power.

If you join the military and decide after a month it isn't for you, wet your bed one night and they'll send you home.

 

[Vivi]

That was another route I was considering. I'd love to hear from people who have been in the Peace Corp. Last time I looked at their website I didn't seem to find many specifics about the work they do, but I'm going to look over it again.

EDIT: They're coming by Akron U around the 25th so I might try and stop by then and ask questions.

 

[jtvinny]

If you don't have a civilian job lined up right now and aren't against doing 20 in the military then I wouldn't consider the guard. I joined 15 years ago thinking that I would give it 4 years and see what I wanted to do after that. Well here I am 8 years away from retirement (I got out and went to college for 3 years on Uncle Sugar). If you want to help people look at Civil Affairs in the Army or if you want more action but still want to help people consider the 18x program and try to become a Special Forces communications sergeant (they deal with all kinds of automation). I am sure that there are great jobs in the other branches as well but I can only speak for the Army. If you want more feel free to PM me or just ask away.

The bottom line though is are you wanting to have fun (like dating more than one girl at a time- can lead to headaches) or dedicate yourself to something (an investment in your future)? Once you decide that it will narrow your choices considerably.

 

[TorzJohnson]

If you're looking to serve your country in a constructive way, the U.S. Coast Guard is an armed service that focuses on such things as search and rescue, environmental protection, maritime safety, law enforcement, aids to navigation, etc. Yes, the CG has been in all major conflicts and there have been Coasties killed in action but defense is just one of many missions.

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there, but aren't bound to serve at all at that point.

All branches of service have this, it's just not openly admitted. Boot camp is the one period in which you can fairly easily get out of the service; if you're not cut out for it, believe me they will get rid of you pretty quick.

On the other hand, boot camp bears little resemblance to regular life in the service, so it's not a good thing to base a decision on as to whether you're cut out for it or not. My advice would be to think long and hard about it before you make a move.

- TorzJohnson (USCG RM1/TC1 Ret.)

 

[MORIMOTOM]

the cg is sounds like a good option. what is interesting is they are military in times of war, under the department of the navy. during "peace" they are under the department of transportation, i believe. though they are no less an armed force than any other branch. (if im wrong here, please correct me)

based on your op, id say the peace corps is probably a better option.


bravo for looking to serve your country!!!

 

[Sword and Shield]

the cg is sounds like a good option. what is interesting is they are military in times of war, under the department of the navy. during "peace" they are under the department of transportation, i believe. though they are no less an armed force than any other branch. (if im wrong here, please correct me)

based on your op, id say the peace corps is probably a better option.


bravo for looking to serve your country!!!

I think they got merged into the Department of Homeland Security a few years back- don't know if it's peacetime only, though.

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

I would suggest the peace corps..a friend of mine went and scored the best weed of his life in Africa Vivi..thought you might like to know that...

 

[Geraldo]

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there

You're kidding, right?

 

[fedaykincmndr]

If you're not 100% commited to doing it, it's not for you. There is no trial, do it or don't. I don't mean to sound harsh but that's the way of it. Any service takes absolute commitment. If you aren't willing to give up your life, then don't put it on the line.

 

[Vivi]

If you're not 100% commited to doing it, it's not for you. There is no trial, do it or don't. I don't mean to sound harsh but that's the way of it. Any service takes absolute commitment. If you aren't willing to give up your life, then don't put it on the line.

It's not harsh, it's the truth and I understand it. That's why I'm not just jumping into it. I know that I'll be useless there unless I have that 100% attitude about it.

 

[Horned Toad]

It's not harsh, it's the truth and I understand it. That's why I'm not just jumping into it. I know that I'll be useless there unless I have that 100% attitude about it.

You would be worse than useless; you might get someone else killed because of your lack of commitment. If you were the only one at risk and got your self killed it really wouldn’t be a big deal, but to have others die because of you would be a real waste. There are I am sure quite a few military forums around that I would check out. One that is near and dear to me is
http://www.armyranger.com/bb/

You can look without registering. If you consider registering I would read all the FAQs because it is not a very forgiving environment. Some section of interest would be

http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=52&sid=6e7dd41989f555eae4544ab2ec8dc17c

http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=62

Other than some good info on how to deal with recruiters and waivers I will say there would probably not be much there for you since computers and social services are not very high on the list of Ranger ops.

 

[allenC]

Vivi,
It's been awhile since I served (1986-1992), but here's my advice....

Lately I've been talking to some of my friends who are in the Marines, the Guard etc. Most of them so far seem to recommend the Guard. I've thought about serving at different points in my life, but I'm pretty interested in it right now.

Do it.
You will NOT regret your time in uniform....no matter how bad it may be.
Call if a rite of passage, call it a rite of manhood, call it an act of youthful ignorance....regardless, afterwards, you will forever be a part of the greatest brotherhood in the history of mankind.

What I'd like to know is how the different branches compare in terms of training, where I'm likely to be deployed and the types of positions available. For instance I'm A+ certified in computers, so if I could find somewhere where the Navy could use and further develop my computer skills I thought that might be a good route to aim for.

All branches of the military are important.
But you have to ask yourself this:
Do you want a skill that can be aquired in the civilian world, or do you want a skill that you can only aquired in the military?

Something I'm very interested in doing is re-constructive work for other countries. Helping them build up schools and hospitals, securing areas and helping out the population in general.

You might want to research the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and U.S. Army Civil Affairs.

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there, but aren't bound to serve at all at that point.

Sign up for the minimum....maybe two years.
You'll spend nearly half a year in training, and you'll build up about thirty days of leave per year....this will take care of about eight months of your service.
That only leaves about 16 months of active duty left.
Heck, you can handle ANYTHING for 16 months.

Really my only reservation at this point is I find it difficult to have complete faith in the administrative positions our leaders make, like remaining in Iraq.

You will be serving your NATION (the USA), not a particular administration.
And if you enlisted now, you would probably not even be out of schools and training until 2008.
The winds of change are upon us.

I know questioning orders would not be tolerated at all, so I don't want to go into this still feeling that way about the political situation.

This is simply not true.
Believe me, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines question orders all the time.
In fact, the U.S. military does NOT want mindless drones.
They want guys who can reason and solve problems and find ways to kill the enemy.
This does not mean that you can IGNORE orders.
In fact, you will probably do many things that you either don't understand, or that you disagree with....just like in the civilian sector!
What civilian agrees 100% with every corporate or company policy that they are required to uphold or enforce?

It would be a lot easier if we had Muslims bombing us every day trying to destroy our country and I saw a clear need for the defense of our country.

Well, to be totally honest....muslims ARE bombing us everyday!
Roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan maim and kill your fellow countrymen every day!
And radical muslim clerics preach to young muslims, calling for the destruction of the U.S.A., every single day!
Make no mistake about it....we are at war.

Allen

 

[Maikutis]

I think by the "guard" he meant the Army National Guard. If you meant the Coast Guard, then send me a PM and we can talk. I've been in for a short while, and it is very interesting, and VERY different from the other services (and yes, we are Department of the Navy during war, but we are currently Department of Homeland Security).

If you can't commit to at least four years, find something else. If you can and you meant the Coast Guard in your post, drop me a note.

mike

Oh, if you want to travel the world doing social work while in uniform, look up the Seabee's. Department of the Navy and exactly what you were thinking about. But, they also drive trucks through Iraq, as well as build orphanages in the Baltics and Africa.

 

[CorpsmanUP!]

I am a Hospital Corpsman in the reserves. I was in the army before and it was much more fun. the only reason i joined the Navy was to be a SEAL and I figured if that 70% wash out rate at BUD/S got me- at least i could be a field medic with the marines. most jarheads are like kids though- you have to babysit them for EVERYTHING. 'No you can't piss over here it is too close to our water supply' and so on and so forth. ANYway I'd say go with the Army National Guard. You get to play out in the woods with some decent gear and then go home. (until your unit goes to the sand box for a year and a half).

 

[Roadrunner]

What I'd like to know is how the different branches compare in terms of training, where I'm likely to be deployed and the types of positions available

Each branch gives you great opportunities for training. I think the Navy is probably the most focused on technology, and if that's your main interest than I would look closest at them. The Air Force is the runner-up in that regard.

Something I'm very interested in doing is re-constructive work for other countries. Helping them build up schools and hospitals, securing areas and helping out the population in general.

This is somewhat mutually exclusive to your first interest. If you're a techie, you're not going to be out on the ground interacting with the populace on a regular basis. The Army Civil Affairs does the most of this sort of work, primarily because they're the largest force and do the most occupation of territory. The Marines also do a lot of this type of work. The Air Force and Navy, not so much.

Another thing I wanted to know is if there is any sort of trial program. Like a month long boot camp where at the end you decide where you want to go from there, but aren't bound to serve at all at that point.

As has been mentioned, in a sense boot camp itself is the trial period. You can simply say at any time "I don't want to do this anymore, get me out of here" and you'll be gone. It won't be easy or pleasant; the procedure for being chaptered out isn't short and they won't suddenly start being nice to you because you've asked to get out, but you will get out and it won't be a dishonorable discharge. This isn't a good option just because for a couple of months your life is going to suck and there won't be any reward for it. A better option may be looking at ROTC or seeing if there are any local reserve units who would let you come in on a drill weekend to see how things operate. Talk to a recruiter, they may be able to hook you up. Just don't let them push you around. You're smart to want to know what you're getting yourself into, despite what some here might say. I wish more people would be honest with themselves and make sure military service is something they truly want to do and can handle before signing up.

Really my only reservation at this point is I find it difficult to have complete faith in the administrative positions our leaders make, like remaining in Iraq. I know questioning orders would not be tolerated at all, so I don't want to go into this still feeling that way about the political situation. It would be a lot easier if we had Muslims bombing us every day trying to destroy our country and I saw a clear need for the defense of our country.

I can appreciate your concern, but if you're serious about this you have to understand that you don't get to choose your leadership and there are times that you won't agree with them at all. If you stay in more than four years there will be a change of leadership at the top. That's something you'll have to decide if you can live with. As for questioning orders; there's a big difference between questioning whether or not you'll pull your guard shift and questioning whether or not you'll commit a war crime. You are not required to obey an illegal order and in fact you are obligated to refuse it. That's a very dicey situation, and another thing that you should consider before committing.

Just to give you some background, I served four years in the active duty Army in the Military Intelligence field (yes, it's an oxymoron, more so than any of you know) and have spent two more years in the Army Reserves. I'm glad to have served but have been very frustrated with some things along the way, primarily my leadership. If I had it to do over again I would probably join the Air Force or Navy. They place a higher priority on taking care of their people. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying as badmouthing the Army; I don't regret my decision to join, but I also won't lie and say that it's been a wholly great and fulfilling experience because it hasn't.

In the end you'll just have to decide if you want to be part of the killing machine (military) or the helping machine (Peace Corps). There's nothing wrong with either, just make sure you realize that the military is in fact a killing machine before joining. They do humanitarian missions as well, but their primary purpose is to engage with and destroy the enemy. You may not be directly pulling the trigger, but in some way every member contributes to that mission. If you can't handle that, don't sign up.

 

[timcsaw]

The Air Force or Navy can probably make best use of your current experience (A+ computers). They have "jobs" specifically along those lines (watch out for a "computer Job" maintaining a "computer system" in an M1A2 Abrams Tank...(or other "blob lobber) you might end up as CREW.

Todays communications/telecommunication is a big-time computer controlled environment in the Air Force.

 

[timcsaw]

Another thing to consider... Most who are thinking about joining ANY form of military service, usually stop and think about their own mortality; "What if I'm deployed to 'where-ever' and killed? An obvious consideration, but quite frankly, the most important question you should ask yourself is..."Can I kill, and live with it?"

Dieing is (hopefully quick and) easy (Look to God). Living on... having killed other human beings is the tough part.

 

[Vivi]

Thanks for the posts everyone, it's helped and given me more to think about. I think at this point the best thing is to do what I'm currently doing...talk to people, ask questions and read everything about this that I can get my hands on.

A few specific things that have come up...

Killing someone. This is something I could do. I am more interested in creating than destroying, the latter goes against my desires for our world, but I'm aware that violent or lethal force is called for at times. Should I join up, be deployed and be ordered to shoot enemy combatants, I wouldn't have hesitation with this order assuming it didn't fall under the illegal acts / war crime area. I could see myself, after the fact, wondering if what I did was required or justified, but I wouldn't join any forces without being mentally prepared to take lives since I know it could very well happen, and more than once.

Questioning orders. What I meant by not questioning them isn't so much concerned with when an illegal order comes up (I'd imagine that would be rare?), but just knowing how to follow orders in general, acting as one with my unit and not showing hesitation when plans change or something.

Dying is something I've been thinking a lot about in regards to this. The idea of dying fighting for the ideals this country was founded seems pretty noble in theory...but then I think about all the people who live here. It would be kind of saddening / frustrating to know how many even care, or are aware of what these types of people are doing for them, or would outright hate us for doing it etc. It would almost feel like putting your life on the line for the behalf of enemies I could imagine. Did you guys just ignore those types and do it for the people that really mattered or what? Disrespect towards our soldiers never sat well with me. Either way, no, I'm not afraid of dying (Not that I'd ever choose it over life), and that's another thing I'd be certain I'm mentally prepared for before I took the first step to join the forces.

Right now, from what you guys describe, the Peace Corp or Navy seems to sound better than the Army. I would like to develop skills that should I return to civilian life fairly quickly I could utilize to get myself a nice job. So if I could go in there with my A+ and come out prepared to be a network admin, something along those lines, I would really appreciate that benefit. I could go kill people in Iraq, but going to different countries and doing reconstruction / humanitarian work seems like something I could be more passionate about.

Like I said, at this point I just need to keep doing lots of research. But any comments or advice any of you have keep it coming, it's been useful and thought provoking for me.

 

[allenC]

.... but just knowing how to follow orders in general, acting as one with my unit and not showing hesitation when plans change or something.

You really don't have to worry about this one....you will do just fine when it comes to following orders and working with your unit.
Those who can't follow orders or work as a unit don't make it pass Basic.

The idea of dying fighting for the ideals this country was founded seems pretty noble in theory...but then I think about all the people who live here. It would be kind of saddening / frustrating to know how many even care, or are aware of what these types of people are doing for them, or would outright hate us for doing it etc. It would almost feel like putting your life on the line for the behalf of enemies I could imagine. Did you guys just ignore those types and do it for the people that really mattered or what? Disrespect towards our soldiers never sat well with me.

This one is a little difficult to explain....
When I was a Soldier I never expected anyone to thank me for my service (although many did thank me).
After all, the civilian sector and the military both work hand in hand defending this nation.
While the military is definitely the edge and point of the blade, the civilian populance is the hand and handle controlling the blade.
If not for civilian workers the military would not exist.
Armies do not "go to war"....nations "go to war".
Some Soldiers think that civilians should "thank" them for their service or at least be aware and appreciative....we've all seen the bumpersticker "If you like your freedom then thank a vet!".
But some Soldiers forget that if it were not for the civilian workforce they would have no weapons, no clothing, no ammunition, no fuel, no food, no housing, no vehicles, no computers, no knives, no tools, no medicine, etc....

So yes, there are those who don't care about the sacrifice that the military makes for this nation....just as there are many military personnel who don't care about the sacrifice that the civilian workforce makes for this nation.
Sadly, many Soldiers are maimed or killed while in service to their nation.
But also sadly, many civilians are maimed or killed while making weapons and equipment for the military.

Here's an old but interesting article:
http://hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/asbestos/intro.html