Junglas, RTAK, etc. vs. Cheap Machete

Stay away from SOG and the Gerber "gator" machetes at all costs. They are junk. Even Cold Steel is better than those, but they're not great. Stick with Tramontina or Imacasa/Condor and you'll be fine. Ontarios are okay but they're much heavier than they need to be. The big Battle Mistress/ Junglas-style choppers are great. But they're really short swords, not machetes, and require a different technique and mindset to use. It just depends on what you'll be happy to carry around and are comfortable using for what you need to do.

The type of knife/ machete a person needs depends greatly on where they are. If you're in jungle that has lot of thin undergrowth that you need to clear out of the way, then a light machete is just the ticket. If you're in a hardwood forest where you need mostly need to process wood for fires, you're probably better off with a chopper or an axe and a 4" knife. A person's skillset and what he's comfortable using is also very important. There is no one type of knife or machete that is "right" for everyone, everywhere. I like big, monster choppers, but they are beastly heavy to carry around. I usually leave them in camp. I like lighter, thinner, longer blades when I move around. When I was younger, and had more time to play around in the woods, the only machete I had experience with was a big WWII Ontario with a horrible edge, and I hated it. I carried a big Army officer's saber around on a baldric, which I used like a machete. I loved that thing!
 
Knifetests CS Kukri Machete Destruction Test.

1055 carbon steel heat treated for toughness. Those SOGfari machetes are stainless, are they not?

For not a lot of cash you can get a machete and a file to fix any problems with the blade in a real survival situation. Fixing the edge on a wondersteel super-chete is not going to happen as often, but when it does it's going to take a sight more work to fix as well and the tools to fix it are going to cost a bit as well.

I'll take a CS or Condor carbon steel bladed machete over their uptown neighbors because I don't need anything more. Don't begrudge those who love their high end blades, though.
 
KalEl said:
It just all depends on what you are raised with. For every person who was raised using a light, thin machete, there is a person who was raised doing similar chores with a stout, heavy kukri.

Its all about what works best for you, for some the 6 dollar machete works best, but for me, a $150 9.5 inch bowie made out of S7 that's .27 thick works best.
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I think your math is off by several billion people, but I can understand your second statement. I think skills is always more important than gear, but life is short, so why not play with the toys if you've got them.
 
Hmmm.. ok I just ranted about an RTAK... and that was Ontario Knives Company.. and now ESEE is supposedly the exact same company per their website..

RTAK is a pos chopper.. It might be fine for kindling prep or.. cutting meat/food.. but chopping? craptastic.

So Junglas is ESEE, same people that were/are Ontario knives? (pls correct me with sources if I am incorrect.) Why would I waste another $100 on a cheap "chopper" if it is just going to fail when I start chopping douglas fir (NOT A HARD WOOD AT ALL)..

I am going to avoid these "budget" companies for choppers as I don't see them as more than over sized CUTTERS.

SO... does ESEE know how to HT now days or what.. please tell me things are different and that you can actually chop 6" diameter logs without warping or complete steel loss. I just warped and then lost a chunk of steel in the middle of my RTAK worthless chopper. Too bad it feels good in hand, blade profile is nice, handle is great.. too bad :)
 
Esee is not connected in any way with ontario. They designed the rat and rtak blades which are made by ontario, but split the sheets several years ago. Rowen makes the Esee blades now and yes they do know how to do a good heat treat. The junglas is a far differnt blade from the rtak2. So are the sheaths.

take it easy
cricket
 
Wow, great thread. There is also such a thing as a high end working machete (as opposed to much more expensive art/collector blades). Working S7 and ATS-34 machetes can be seen in the link below. Other makers offer much fancier and finely fitted machetes, and the skill and work involved is reflected in the price. Of coarse most machetes are very cheap, it just depends on your preference and pocket book. But in general, machetes are some of the most useful of edge implements.
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Ross Aki machetes
http://www.akiblades.com
 
sloth357 said:
<snip>
SO... does ESEE know how to HT now days or what.. please tell me things are different and that you can actually chop 6" diameter logs without warping or complete steel loss. I just warped and then lost a chunk of steel in the middle of my RTAK worthless chopper. Too bad it feels good in hand, blade profile is nice, handle is great.. too bad :)
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a couple weeks ago at a campout I participated in a chopping competition -- 6" longleaf pine, 2nd place was a guy with Junglas who severed the log in 45 seconds, first place was a guy with an 18" machete who did it in 32.
Obviously age, physical condition, and technique all played in the time it took, but neither blade took any damage and I have no idea what kinds of edges the knives had (factory, convex, etc..)
 
I really think that cool factor aside, yes, you'd be much better off with a machete for doing the kind of work it was designed to do. I believe that even Jeff Randall himself (ESEE's president or whatever) has unequivocally stated that he far prefers a machete to his Junglas for that type of work. I am a huge fan of ESEE and have many of them. The last one I bought was a Junglas. It was truly awsome in every respect. I fondled for a week, drooled over it for half that, and then sold it. I have two fine machetes (Collins Legitimus) and more axes than I can count and figured I did not need $150 tied up in "cool". Sold it a bought a very nice leather holster for my .45 with the proceeds.
 
pickering said:
I Seems like the Junglas, especially (RTAK too), would be used for machete type chores but would not work as well for batoning big stuff because of the thin blade.
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3/16" ain't thin really.
And I've batonned the Junglas lengthwise through a 6" diameter log with great ease.
It beats the hell out the RD-9 which is 1/4" thick.
It beats the hell out of most knives for chopping and batonning.:)
It also works sorta like a machete on green vegetation, but it is WAY more of a chopper than a machete.
Just because it has machete in the name doesn't make it one.;)

DCFC0023.jpg


(that was really in 2010)

Survival1119.jpg


(all cut with the Junglas)
 
stabman said:
3/16" ain't thin really.
And I've batonned the Junglas lengthwise through a 6" diameter log with great ease.
It beats the hell out the RD-9 which is 1/4" thick.
It beats the hell out of most knives for chopping and batonning.:)
It also works sorta like a machete on green vegetation, but it is WAY more of a chopper than a machete.
Just because it has machete in the name doesn't make it one.;)
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This is basically what I was going to say. 3/16 isn't thin, really. It's thick enough to chop well, while not being too cumbersome for most people. I, personally, like thicker blades, but 3/16 is a great thickness for a blade this size.

As far as batoning goes, any thickness of a blade can baton, the thicker ones just split it faster.
 
From my own experience, I'll say that a properly heat treated, well designed machete (which can be found at all levels of the price spectrum) can tackle 90%+ of anything you need to do outdoors (depending on specific pattern and the skill of the user). I've personally used an 1/8" thick Cold Steel Barong Machete to baton through a tree trunk just to see if I could and it did the job fine and without any damage. If you plan on doing any batoning with a machete I suggest a piece in the 3/32" range (+/-) simply from a stiffness perspective so the blade doesn't buckle under the baton, causing shock and wasting energy. A shorter machete can afford to be thinner from a batoning standpoint, but loses chopping efficacy.

If I could only have one edged tool for the rest of my life it would be a machete, regardless of where on the planet you put me. To me they represent the do-all sharp thing.
 
I'm a little baffled by this post. Machetes don't seem to fail this way. Handles occasionally fall apart, and they'll take occasional dents and dings along the edge. But actual breakage is a rare thing. Tramontinas, Imacasas, and almost every cheap machete I've come across has been tempered more like a spring than a knife. As such they tend to be extremely durable, though a bit on the soft side compared to a regular knife.

Personally, my cutoff point for a machete is about 1/8" blade thickness, with a simple single bevel. Knives with thicker blades and fancier grinds I tend to categorize as simply big knives. In my mind, machetes are cheap, durable tools with just as much kinship to a shovel than a Bowie.
 
1966c10- I pretty much agree with you. Most cheap blades noodle on anything that isnt soft or tiny...

The picture of the debris shelter chopped by the junglas are all tiny little sticks.. big deal. Put some force behind that and chop something harder than my C)CKI and I bet you get a trashed blade.. clearing green vs chopping hard wood are totally different. PERIOD.

I went back and chopped some dense 45yo wood that is only 4in in diameter with a custom chopper and had no edge damage at all. Tried again with crapless wannbe chopper and more noodle..

Took that same chopper after successfully chopping through said hard wood and attacked some briars and it sliced through and cleared shrubs as if it never hit anything yet.. POS wannbe chopper was dull and just hacking away with no real slicing action.. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'd rather not "prop" up some cheap production crap, save an extra $100 bucks and buy a knife/chopper that can chop, slice, process fire wood and keep going w/o noodling, w/o need of constant re-sharpening..

PEOPLE< I get it.. you want value.. you want to feel you are getting your money worth.. so you buy crap and then think it's good? Try saving, and buying serious value--- something that does the job over and over again and keeps slicing/chopping w/o fail.. that is value..

/end rant (again....) I'm not putting another dollar into an Ontario made, an ESEE made.. pfft even Becker, I'll keep saving my pennies and buy something custom and kickASS..

That's my 2 cents.. rage on kids.
 
I eagerly await the log cabin Mr. Sloth will built with his indestructable custom knife.:D
 
I've chopped through a ton of hardwood with my Junglas with no chipping, noodling and barely any damage. I have custom choppers and love them, but there is no reason to think a Junglas sucks just because something else does better. I have a 12-13 inch Golok which will outchop everything I own, but that's not to say I don't think the Junglas is a great knife because it doesn't chop as well.
 
I thought machetes were a little too thin and light for chopping wood. The low weight is good for severing vines and bushes that are in the way when you walk. If you want to stand still and chop wood, it seems a thicker heavier knife would do a better job. (or an axe)
 
Sloth, I wouldn't figure ESEE and Becker would fall into the "cheap production crap" category. Horndog tested his Junglas against his Busse Bushwacker something or the other and said the Junglas worked just as well. He didn't say it was better or tougher, but it handled the work just as well. Custom blades give you custom touches, special materials, and certainly pride of ownership, but I don't hear of many becker or ESEE failures.
 
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