Jungle Knife

Sorry Cliff, didn't mean to upset you. I probably jumped the gun in thinking jungle equals tropical rain forest. I apologize for thinking a machete is a knife or that it is useful because "natives" as you call them use it. And yes, I did go through medical school, and I'd use whatever I had to in those six months in the jungle. Plenty of medicinals trace their origin back to plants. Knowlegdge is a survival tool, too.

------------------
Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
 
Since I live in mixed hardwoods and conifers with snow half of the year, and since the closest I've been to a jungle is Mazatlan, Mexico, I will defer to an expert. JEFF RANDALL. If I was forced to choose, I would pick the knife designed by a jungle expert and made by an underrated and humble knife maker.(Newt Livesay) The RTAK. Jeff isn't a chest thumper so you won't get him to mention it. I ordered one 2 weeks ago and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival. Cliff, have you got your RCM yet? I will be very interested to read your review. Any plans on reviewing an RTAK?

Take care, (AND a big knife)
Jim
 
Seems to me that the "what the natives use" argument cuts both ways. Assuming you are in a primitive area that lacks access to modern modern technology and materials, the blades you encounter will probably not be of the highest quality. However I would be willing to bet that the design is very sound and especially well suited to the enviroment it is used in. After all, these blades are used in all types of situations to help the people survive. If I knew where I was going in advance, I'd obtain a typical local blade and have a custom version made in a good quality stainless with micarta handle slabs. Knives are not like medicine where cause and effect and efficacy of certain treatments are not readily apparent to the naked eye or untrained observer. It will be pretty obvious whether or not your knife is doing what is asked of it and how well it is doing it. I am also fairly certain that a local who lives with and uses his knife every day
could make a locally produced POS seemingly out perform a high dollar custom in the hands of a tourist but that is due to technique. I have little doubt that if you traded blades for a week the local would be clamboring for his knife back.

phantom4

------------------
who dares, wins


 
Thanks for the kind words.

The RTAK is an excellent tropical blade but its design is a compromise between the efficiency of a machete for South American jungles and some of the harder chopping found Stateside. True, there are some real hard woods found in the South American jungles, but the first rule of survival in a foreign environment is to learn and work as the natives do. Most plants and trees in the SA jungles are waterlogged. A machete works exceptionally well there.

Honestly speaking, if I were going to be in the jungle for 6 months, I would save the 150 dollars spent on the RTAK and buy a couple of cheap, but good, machetes. The machetes sharpen quicker on the available sharpening rocks found in villages. The thinner design lends itself to better cutting even when it gets dull, and the longer reach is really nice in dense secondary jungle or bushwhacking through flooded jungle.

With that said, the natives love the RTAK when I have it sharp. It cuts better than their machetes WHEN it is sharp. Give it to the Indians and they will be digging ground, whacking through alligators, and doing all sorts of dulling procedures with the blade. Once it loses the fine edge the machetes will out-do it.

The 'natives' blades have never seen proper sharpening and edge bevels. They are thinned out for cutting what is required to live. So I will ALWAYS defer to what is used by folks who have survived eons because they have learned how and what works. If it's too damn hard they just get another piece from the jungle super store.

Another point that needs to be made, when we spend 2 or 3 weeks in the jungle, I usually re-sharpen my blades nightly. Typically, the natives sharpen only before leaving for the trip and hardly ever re-sharpen until they are out of the jungle, and these guys use the damn blade for everything.

As I said in a post on our forum, many natives can cut better with a tin can top than most of us can with a 300 dollar knife.

Sorry to be so damn blunt, but my opinions are based on what I have seen. A lot of folks think natives only use machetes because they are cheap, that's pure bull****. I'm sorry but survival and cutting efficiency is not based on dollar value or some superman tool. I've used a lot of thicker knives there that have worked well, and in a few circumstances they performed better than a machete, but overall a simple machete excels.

As far as 'native medicine,' sure I take refined medicines with me because they work for me. Give 2 aspirin to a deep jungle Indian and you may kill him. On the other hand, take some of their medicine and you might die. We take malaria medicine, these folks use the bark of quinine. In an extended stay you can bet your ass I will be listening to the 'natives' because my 'white man' cures may just run out, get spoiled, or get lost, but this has absolutely zero to do with cutting efficiency.

Jeff

------------------
Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
V44, I am not upset the argument is just severely flawed. For example if I was to go back in time one generation ago where everyone where I lived fished for a living and give them two choices for a fillet blade (a) a chef's knife ground away from years of use or (b) a custom high end fillet blade every single one would take the custom, sell it and get a ground away chef's blade from the kitchen.

Now is this a good argument that a fillet knife should have the design of a chef's knife ground away (width wise)? No it is not. There are other considerations besides performance that are effecting the choices being made.

The same thing goes for just about every tool. For example everyone burned wood as a source of heat. The wood was cut down with axes, limbed out and split. The same axe was used for all of this. If I had given them again a choice of (a) a decent felling axe or (b) a high end felling axe, limbing axe and splitter. They would most likely all take the latter, sell them and buy the former. This is not a good argument that the best axe for splitting is the same one for limbing as it the same one for felling.

Jim, no sign of the RCM yet, I am very interested in the RTAK and the choice to get one will be strongly influenced by the performance of the RCM.

-Cliff
 
Oh well. That blows my 'theory' all to Hell
smile.gif


------------------
Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Cliff, I live on an island, some say we are a generation behind the times. Almost everyone here fishes, some of us commercially. There are a few commercial fishing supply shops on the mainland in a fish processing plant town called Pt. Judith. They are carry fillet and fish cleaning knives. Most everyone who works commercial boats in these parts uses a white handled Dexter. If I get a Spyderco Catcherman, which I'm considering, it is only because I like it, not because I think it will work better or even be better for the work I do. I don't think my having one, if I do get it, will change everyone's opinion out here what they should use. BTW, we've gotten around to using nail guns out here, but I haven't thrown away my wooden handled Vaughan. Good talk'in with ya.



------------------
Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
 
V44, I currently use a custom fillet blade from Phil Wilson. It has a 9.5" blade, with a full distil taper. The edge is ground down to about .01" with a very acute bevel about 15 degrees or so. The steel is CPM-420V at about 59 RC. The cutting performance is very strong and it can easily be felt when compared to other blades. It is just so much thinner. It is not a cheap blade by any means, but if you are interested in a good quality fillet blade you might want to drop Phil an email (seamountpcw@earthlink.net) . He does work in other steels as well.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-17-2000).]
 
I found the old Blackjack Panga to be a very efficient tool. Unfortunately mine was stolen when my house was burgled. I am sure the Panga is still giving somebody out there very good service.
It was cheap to buy also, and I liked the balance more than my current Ontario machete.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top