Junk Steel

bld522

bld522

Joined
Feb 3, 2004
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I'm always interested to see the alloys some folks consider to be substandard for creating cutting edges. 420HC is often attacked as are 440C, D2, and most recently, S30V and Elmax. So here's a simple question. Are there any knives you would refuse to purchase based on their blade alloy alone? If so, which alloys are on your hit list and why?
 
I like a blade that takes a keen edge and is easy to sharpen. Therefore, I like "junk steel." :D
 
What? No M390 or ZDP-189 hardened to 67-68 HRC for you? Unimaginable. :mad: ;)
 
Maybe it was just my knife, but I had enough traumas to never touch knives with S35VN again.
 
I must have missed something... since when are s30v and Elmax considered junk for edges? I know s30v is supposed to be harder to sharpen, but its overall edge retention is supposed to be great....
 
A.L. said:
Maybe it was just my knife, but I had enough traumas to never touch knives with S35VN again.
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Yep. I've heard some bad reports about S35VN. So I know it's on some folks' hit list. Thanks for sharing.

By the way, to keep it civil, this thread isn't about being "right" or "wrong". It's about you and your particular preferences . . . no one else's.
 
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Divine_Madcat said:
I must have missed something... since when are s30v and Elmax considered junk for edges? I know s30v is supposed to be harder to sharpen, but its overall edge retention is supposed to be great....
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Use the search function. Believe me, the disparaging comments are out there.
 
Personally, I prefer steels like AUS8, 440c, 12C27, VG10, N690, 154CM, but I end up using S30V a lot because my favorite designs use them. I can dull pretty much anything rather quickly so something that takes a razor edge fast is just less work to me. If I'm using my knife a lot, I just touch it up on my sharp maker at the end of the day. I sometimes wonder if guys like the super steels because they aren't very good at sharpening. I'll buy a blade in just about any kind of steel but most of my knives are mid - high range production folders. D2 has always been a bear for me and the few knives I have in M390 I haven't actually used. I guess there's something for everyone.
 
draggat said:
I guess there's something for everyone.
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Ain't that the truth! :) Heat treat obviously has a lot to do with it, but to hear some people talk, it wouldn't matter if a particular alloy is tempered perfectly for its desired function. If the knife is made out a specific alloy, they'll walk away from it no matter what. Those are the folks whose opinions I'm most interested in hearing . . . the ones who dismiss an alloy just because it is what it is . . . and don't give a second thought to how well it's heat-treated or the purpose it's going to be used for.

Come on now. I know you're out there . . . :)
 
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I have knives with all of those(except Elmax) you mention, and have no problems with any of them.
S35VN has turned out to be one of my favorites, along with S30V, BG-42, and D2.
I have steels such as M390, CTS-204p, ZDP-189, 3G, etc..., but prefer the middle ground steels myself.
I guess I'm not much of a steel junkie, and mainly buy for the knife over the steel used.
 
For awhile, Matt Roberts was producing knives using 1065 which, I admit, I was a tad surprised by at first. However, along with high toughness, my examples have displayed far better general edge retention than I'd have ever guessed. I'm not saying it's the best, but probably the one that surprised me the most.
 
bld522 said:
I'm always interested to see the alloys some folks consider to be substandard for creating cutting edges. 420HC is often attacked as are 440C, D2, and most recently, S30V and Elmax. So here's a simple question. Are there any knives you would refuse to purchase based on their blade alloy alone? If so, which alloys are on your hit list and why?
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I personally believe that the majority of steels used in knives are great for cutting edges as long as the quality of the knife blade is there. Proper shape/ edge geometry/ manufacture/ heat treat are the deciding factors. Many people attack steels that they don't completely understand because of how they are manufactured. I have a variety of different knife steels in knives at different price points. You definitely get what you pay for. When people get a 3Cr13, 7Cr17, or 8Cr13Mov from a cheep manufacturer then complain that their $20 knife did not live up to their expectation it us understandable. Compare it to the same knife steel made by a different or more reputable manufacturer for double the price and you will get a better piece of steel. This is just my personal point of view based on my life experience with the knives in my collection.

My question for a different thread would then be; Which manufacturer would you never buy from and why? (staying completely away from the politics of knives made outside the USA and based only on the performance of their product)
 
I probably wouldn't buy anything with J2, AUS4, or AUS6.

AUS8 is ok, as are some 420HC blades.

I really like the steels in the next step up: D2, AUS10, 440C... Reasonable edge holding without being difficult to sharpen.
 
TBL said:
My question for a different thread would then be; Which manufacturer would you never buy from and why? (staying completely away from the politics of knives made outside the USA and based only on the performance of their product)
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Absolutely. You could even marry that question to this one. For example, you might buy an S30V knife from one manufacturer but not from another. At this point, however I'd rather not muddy the issue. As you suggested, I'd prefer to save that question for another thread. :)
 
It all depends on price. I'm not laying out $150 for a knife with 420J2 without knowing a LOT about the maker and their reasons. If you showed me a Griptillian in 1055 with a good heat treatment, I'd be all over it.
 
I really like bang for your buck knives such as the new Manix 2 LW with S110V. Although I buy knives based on design and functionality before blade steel. I think its cool to have super steels, but its also nice to have steels like AUS8 and 8cr13mov that sharpen easily and take an extremely sharp edge.
 
Since you asked, I don't think I would ever buy a knife that uses 420HC. I only have one experience with it.... my Leatherman Juice, which is actually part of my edc. I will buy another Juice when this one dies, but the blade on it is terrible IMHO. It has ruined 420HC for me. Why waste my time on that steel when i can get another Dozier folding hunter with Aus8 for $20? I always carry at least a small folder in addition to the Juice for cutting anyway. Also, I avoid any Chinese knife marked with '440'.
 
I tend to stay away from 3cr13, 420J, AUS4 or 6 and 440A or B steels. It's not that I think they're junk, but I can so often get a demonstrably better steel for my purposes at the same price or for just a couple dollars more. I'm big on value and design and there are already a ton of great designs at or under $30 that use AUS8, 8cr13, 8cr14, 9cr18 or 440c and I'd rather have those steels.
 
I try to avoid anything advertising an ambiguous material "series" such as 400 or 440, or simply stainless steel of an unspecified type. If I do buy such a knife, it's purely because I like the design, am willing to accept that the steel is probably terrible, and have no intention of every cutting anything with it. I also prefer not to buy a knife made of 7Cr or AUS6, although I can think of a couple I own and really like that are made from those steels. I have no issue with 8Cr, 440C or AUS8, and those are typical in my EDC rotation.
 
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