Junk Steel

draggat said:
Since you asked, I don't think I would ever buy a knife that uses 420HC. I only have one experience with it.... my Leatherman Juice, which is actually part of my edc. I will buy another Juice when this one dies, but the blade on it is terrible IMHO. It has ruined 420HC for me. Why waste my time on that steel when i can get another Dozier folding hunter with Aus8 for $20? I always carry at least a small folder in addition to the Juice for cutting anyway. Also, I avoid any Chinese knife marked with '440'.
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Buck uses 420HC and the Buck 110 and Buck 119 Special are classic knives for a reason...and having crappy steel is not that reason.
 
My 3 favorites are S30V, D2 and Cpm 154. All other steels are on an individual knife case by case decision. If I had to list one that I really don't like it would be any of the AuS's.
 
I don't get too wrapped up in steel type. I take it on a case by case basis. I buy knives based on the design, and weather it is a reputable maker. For the most part, IMHO if you buy from a well known, reputable maker, you will most likely get a knife with good materials and good build quality. Your definition of reputable May vary.
 
I suppose I'm not much of a steel junkie. But I happen to love 1095. I certainly know less about metallurgy than many on this forum, but I know I can make 1095 crazy sharp, easily. So I suppose I am the opposite of what you are looking for. I would take a knife in 1095 over the same knife offered in something else, probably every time.
 
W.M.B. said:
I suppose I'm not much of a steel junkie. But I happen to love 1095. I certainly know less about metallurgy than many on this forum, but I know I can make 1095 crazy sharp, easily. So I suppose I am the opposite of what you are looking for. I would take a knife in 1095 over the same knife offered in something else, probably every time.
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Also, haven't heard anyone sing the praises of 8cr13MoV ever. But just the other day I red some place, someone calling it a"super steel"
The only knife I have with it, do far as I know, is my kershaw volt. It works fine for me, opening hay bales, or the mail, or sometimes making tinder for the wood stove. But I can't make it as sharp as I can a good old piece of 1095
 
I'll just avoid things that says "Pakistan" or just "Stainless" on the blade. I was going to say the surgical steel/ unknown 440, but I've had very good experience with my Rough Riders.
 
DShiflet said:
Buck uses 420HC and the Buck 110 and Buck 119 Special are classic knives for a reason...and having crappy steel is not that reason.
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I did not realize that the 110 was 420HC. I haven't used mine for about 25 years and don't really have much interest in using it or buying another. That's not saying they aren't good. I just have too many other knives that I like a lot more. In recent memory, that Leatherman Juice is the only knife blade I use with 420HC and it stinks. Regardless of reason, I won't purchase another knife with that steel..... just my own insanity I guess. Now that I've said that, I'll probably find a knife I can't live without using that steel.
 
The thing that surprises me is when I hear people refer to alloys as junk that used to be considered state-of-the-art. 440C is a good example. Here's a stainless alloy that, when heat treated properly, produces a sharp edge that can take a beating and remain sharp for a considerable period of time. And yet I know there are folks out there who would never condescend to buy a knife made of an alloy as "lowly" as 440C. Then there's the more recent crop of super-steels that get ragged on as well. I've even heard of S30V being referred to as crap steel. Seriously? S30V?
 
bld522 said:
The thing that surprises me is when I hear people refer to alloys as junk that used to be considered state-of-the-art. 440C is a good example. Here's a stainless alloy that, when heat treated properly, produces a sharp edge that can take a beating and remain sharp for a considerable period of time. And yet I know there are folks out there who would never condescend to buy a knife made of an alloy as "lowly" as 440C. Then there's the more recent crop of super-steels that get ragged on as well. I've even heard of S30V being referred to as crap steel. Seriously? S30V?
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This really makes me wonder if these guys actually USE their knives or just collect, or maybe can't sharpen them, hence the need for a steel that can supposedly stay sharp forever. I personally feel 440C is great steel. Just picked up a few Bokers with it and I have to say that when Lion Steel switched from 440C to D2, it was a sad day for me.
 
I guess people often confuse 440C with "440 stainless" on some 3$ crap knife they bought. Or, as draggat wrote, they don't use their knives and "need" the latest super steel so it stays sharp while lying in the safe :rolleyes:
 
I use AUS8 in a Rat 1 or 2 every day, use VG10(Dragonfly) every day, use S30V every single day in my Ritter Grip or PM2, cutting cardboard, plastic, paper, twine, wood, zip ties etc. I've never had to touch up any of these steels. I choose to touch them up once or twice or week out of habit, but they've never gotten dull enough to need it. If AUS8 runs that strong, then the others last longer for sure, and the arguments against "lower end steels" become a moot point.
 
440C, D2, Elmax junk steel, what have you been reading? The people I see who hate the 440C, S30V, D2 are the ones who can't sharpen, as for Elmax there were a few complaints of people thinking a company ran their Elmax too soft but otherwise I've never heard a single valid complaint about it from what I can recall.

420HC it's a lower end steel and is nothing spectacular and Buck does a superb heat treat on it that makes it shines from what I hear.

440a is usually what I see take a lot of heat but I haven't heard anyone say bad things about it when it comes from a reputable company who puts a good heat treat on it. Kershaw and Rough Rider comes to mind for putting a decent heat treat on this often poorly regarded steel. In fact I have a Rough Rider Canoe which is my favorite EDC and the steel is more than good enough for EDC. It won't be winning any awards for being spectacular but it gets the job done. The bad rep comes from those cheap no name knives labeled 440 stainless which are usually 440a and given a heat treat in an EZ Bake Oven.
 
I like 8cr13mov as cheap steels go, and I see no need to go lower than that when the Tenacious family and some Kershaws in that steel are so inexpensive. My EDC for over a year was a Spyderco Persistence, and I still love that blade. I suppose I don't have an aversion to particular steels so much as I have no possible reason to go below 8cr13mov. I'm carrying CPM S30V now and loving it.
 
draggat said:
I did not realize that the 110 was 420HC. I haven't used mine for about 25 years and don't really have much interest in using it or buying another. That's not saying they aren't good. I just have too many other knives that I like a lot more. In recent memory, that Leatherman Juice is the only knife blade I use with 420HC and it stinks. Regardless of reason, I won't purchase another knife with that steel..... just my own insanity I guess. Now that I've said that, I'll probably find a knife I can't live without using that steel.
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Previously posted by Bear Claw Chris Lappe regarding Buck 110 blade steel:

Before 1981.- 440C
1981 to 1992.- 425M
After 1993.- 420HC

I find Buck's 420HC to be acceptable, but keep in mind my preferences from Post #2. Buck's 420HC is considered by many to be the industry's best.
 
I ended up with a thin stainless steel butcher knife that was out of Japan, probably 60s or 70s. It is probably 300 or unhardened 400 series. After using that knife to open a few bags of top soil and needing to sharpen it after every few bags I wouldn't buy a knife with 300 series stainless steel. However, I would buy a RR spike knife if I needed a knife and nothing else was available.
 
C_Becker said:
I guess people often confuse 440C with "440 stainless" on some 3$ crap knife they bought. Or, as draggat wrote, they don't use their knives and "need" the latest super steel so it stays sharp while lying in the safe :rolleyes:
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This is exactly the case. When you see a knife that says 440 stainless and a boker (or whateva) that has 440c on it, if you don't know much about steels or knives for that matter, you can easily pass up a really good blade just because it has "crap" steel.....when in actuality its pretty darn good stuff!

For me, I try to avoid anything less than 8cr....such as 3cr, 5cr, etc. Could just be my ignorance, but I just avoid these as my personal opinion is they are junk steels. Maybe I should try them and see if my opinion is fact? Who knows. Will probably never happen. For now, I'll just stick to s30v, 154cm, vg-10, d-2, etc. Also, I avoid all knives with plastic washers. That's a deal breaker for me and it seems crappy steel goes hand-in-hand with those plastic freaking washers!
 
bld522 said:
I'm always interested to see the alloys some folks consider to be substandard for creating cutting edges. 420HC is often attacked as are 440C, D2, and most recently, S30V and Elmax. So here's a simple question. Are there any knives you would refuse to purchase based on their blade alloy alone? If so, which alloys are on your hit list and why?
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Where are you getting this info from? Never have I heard D2, S30V, or Elmax being called "junk". WTF?

If you are hearing this I would seriously consider taking it with a grain of salt because that person or people have no clue what they are talking about.
 
I think it really comes down to price for me. Say if a sebenza was the same price but featured aus-8, then I wouldn't buy one. But a cheaper boker or kershaw with aus-8 I might buy at the right price.

High-end-steel (whatever that is ;)) is just icing on the cake for me.
 
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