Just a quick ?

[thebrain]

Hi new to this place (blade forums) never posted before. I have a few bucks and have never had a problem with them, all fine blades, but recently my buddy went to colorado for a elk hunt (got a 5X5 from under 80 yards) and came back with his diamondback in many pieces. Apparantley while batoning to split the pelvis the knife shattered. I just wondered what the warranty might say about such (abuse?). Just wondered if anyone knows how buck would respond. Thanks!
P.S. Temps were sub zero but the knife was warm from body heat.

 

[chickentrax]

...and came back with his diamondback in many pieces...

...???...What's a diamondback???...

Post some pics of the pieces...I'm sure the Buck people would like to see...

 

[mainewoodsman]

...???...What's a diamondback???...

Post some pics of the pieces...I'm sure the Buck people would like to see...

Pictures and the model number would help...

Diamondbacks are those less expensive, rubber handled knives... one is the Model 471BK Diamondback. They are made in China, however, same 420HC steel that we've grown to know and love

 

[Diamond Dog]

Is that Diamondback a fixed or lock back? In reality most knive's and warranties do not cover the abuse of non cutting activities. Although I and most people baton with their knives I would not expect this would be covered under reasonable cutting usage. From what I've heard a lot of guys damage their blades by splitting pelvis bones from deer and elk.

 

[wh4f]

Is that Diamondback a fixed or lock back?

Fixed blade!
http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/494/222

Although I and most people baton with their knives.

I wouldnt neccessarily say most people... I never have and I dont hunt with anyone who does... I would say some people...

From what I've heard a lot of guys damage their blades by splitting pelvis bones from deer and elk.

Very true... I bought an alpha crosslock with the saw/guthook combo blade...

 

[wh4f]

Hi new to this place (blade forums) never posted before. I have a few bucks and have never had a problem with them, all fine blades, but recently my buddy went to colorado for a elk hunt (got a 5X5 from under 80 yards) and came back with his diamondback in many pieces. Apparantley while batoning to split the pelvis the knife shattered. I just wondered what the warranty might say about such (abuse?). Just wondered if anyone knows how buck would respond. Thanks!
P.S. Temps were sub zero but the knife was warm from body heat.

Welcome to the Buck forums!
First off, buy your buddy an axe or a folding saw for christmas!
Second I think if he mailed it to buck explaining the situation they would replace it. I know of one other instance where this happened, they posted here about it, and the knife was replaced. Pelvic bones are very hard, I would never recommend to baton through one, especially an elks! Good learning lesson
Good luck!

 

[thebrain]

first thanks for all the feedback .yeah he didn`t try to cut the bone just split the joint but it is a bit much for a relatively thin smaller sized fixed blade. he didn`t think what he was doing would shatter a good quality knife like that. I will try to post pics as soon as I get a hold of the knife he didn`t leave it with me .thanks again and I will post a pic in the next few days.

 

[wh4f]

Thats where the problem comes in! Knives are for cutting
Maybe the knife didnt shatter either... They are hardened to help hold their edge, maybe he twisted it while batoning? and it just broke?
The diamondback line is not very thick either, its a great cutting blade but not so much for chopping. Very light design!
also depending on the model of diamondback, (and I am in no way bashing anything here) but around here those diamondbacks can be had (retail) for 10-20 dollars.
They are an "offshore knife" Now granted you can and probably would break a $100.00 knife if trying to baton through an elks pelvis...

 

[2TONYB]

The Buck Diamondback is on sale right now on Cabelas's website...$7.49...cheap enough to tear a few up!!! I bought one for $7 when Galyans went out of business. It's a good knife for that price. I've never abused it, so I can't speak for its ability to take a beating.

 

[Buckaholic]

Thats where the problem comes in! Knives are for cutting ...

You are so full of that game where they roll dice in the casino WH4F.
EVERYONE knows that Bucks can be batoned with a hammer to split a nail. It's on their logo.

Just messin' with ya Jim

TheBrain...welcome to the forum. Buck will most likely replace it. But my name is "Goose", not "Buck", so I don't have the final answer.

Hope it all works out for ya

 

[110 Dave]

yea goose is right i belive they will replace it...
btw how you doing partner?

 

[jb4570]

Tbrain,

There you have it...send the knife back to Buck with an explanation; it may or may not get replaced. Also 2TB let you know about the Cableas sale...so the loss will not be to painfully to replace.

Jimbo,

I was taught that you split the pelvic bone with your knife and have done it that way most of my life. As this is the way this task was taught to me I never questioned it as I was growing up. The funny part is we would find a suitable rock to beat the back of the knife with...LOL. That is the only part that bothered me...rocks are dirty and drop dirt and rock chips into my animals body cavity. I never gave a thought about breaking the blade or damage to the spine from repeated whacks with a rock. When you are splitting a pelvic bone you are using the knife blade like a chisel; though the bone is dense it fractures very easy. So going through bone is easer that going through fibrous wood...IMHO.

Now that I'm older I carry a cheap S&W knife and ax in my pack to do this chore. Many of my old hunting knives have marks on their spines and a few of the older Bucks I have acquired off ebay have that same set of markings that let me know that many folks use their knives in the same way.

jb4570

 

[wh4f]

EVERYONE knows that Bucks can be batoned with a hammer to split a nail. It WAS their logo.

LOL I fixed it for ya Goose!

Jimbo,

I was taught that you split the pelvic bone with your knife and have done it that way most of my life. As this is the way this task was taught to me I never questioned it as I was growing up. The funny part is we would find a suitable rock to beat the back of the knife with...LOL. That is the only part that bothered me...rocks are dirty and drop dirt and rock chips into my animals body cavity. I never gave a thought about breaking the blade or damage to the spine from repeated whacks with a rock. When you are splitting a pelvic bone you are using the knife blade like a chisel; though the bone is dense it fractures very easy. So going through bone is easer that going through fibrous wood...IMHO.

Now that I'm older I carry a cheap S&W knife and ax in my pack to do this chore. Many of my old hunting knives have marks on their spines and a few of the older Bucks I have acquired off ebay have that same set of markings that let me know that many folks use their knives in the same way.

jb4570

A pelvis from a whitetail is alot to chop through, let alone an elk.
Especially with a Diamondback... What knife have you used? I tore up my Alpha folder (not batoning either) ...


I think this sentence pretty much sums up the whole discussion

Now that I'm older I carry................ an ax

 

[jb4570]

A pelvis from a whitetail is alot to chop through, let alone an elk.
Especially with a Diamondback... What knife have you used? I tore up my Alpha folder (not batoning either) ...


I think this sentence pretty much sums up the whole discussion

There is your mistake Jimbo. I agree that if you were to chop at the bone its to much for any knife to handle. It's not to much for a sharp chisel to go through at all. Think about it.

jb4570

 

[wh4f]

There is your mistake Jimbo. I agree that if you were to chop at the bone its to much for any knife to handle. It's not to much for a sharp chisel to go through at all. Think about it.

jb4570

I'll try it out with my New S30V kalinga next bow season


I'm not saying its not possible... its just that there are better tools for the job! Especially with a diamondback, its a pretty feeble knife, maybe a nighthawk would be better suited to it? What do you think Messy?

 

[wh4f]

I'll try it out with my New S30V kalinga next bow season

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thebrain]

thanks for the welcome.the model was the larger diamondback (I have the same one) he also has many(like 6) of the smaller diamondbacks he loves them for skinning as he is a avid hunter/trapper. yes I agree there are far better tools for the job but as is often the case you use what you have handy, he had my nighthawk with him just not close enough he used the nighthawk on a caribou hunt a few years ago with np .I have done the same batoning with a spyderco endura and had np on a white tail years ago and I used a tire iron!!! yes I have also heard many stories of damaged knive fron such use but I don`t think it is really abuse as that is the way many people have done it for years as jb4570 so nicely explained .as I said I will try to get a pic as soon as I can .thanks for all the feedback

 

[honesttom]

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually the s30v kalinga would be a great choice to try it out with, I split the pelvic on lots of deer and a few elk with my knives, and i've done them all without chopping, i've used my crosslocks, 110's, 112's and kalingas, the larger knives are easier to split the pelvic, what i do is feel under the inside of the pelvic and find the ridge(center), then on the outside i line up my knife blade so it's in line with that little ridge(the sweet spot). , i then put pressure on the spine of the knife, so with both hands on the knife(one hand on the handle and other on spine of knife) i rock it back and forth applying the pressure needed and the pelvic usually splits very easily, occasionally I miss the sweet spot and have to break out my saw.

 

[wh4f]

Actually the s30v kalinga would be a great choice to try it out with, I split the pelvic on lots of deer and a few elk with my knives, and i've done them all without chopping, i've used my crosslocks, 110's, 112's and kalingas, the larger knives are easier to split the pelvic, what i do is feel under the inside of the pelvic and find the ridge(center), then on the outside i line up my knife blade so it's in line with that little ridge(the sweet spot). , i then put pressure on the spine of the knife, so with both hands on the knife(one hand on the handle and other on spine of knife) i rock it back and forth applying the pressure needed and the pelvic usually splits very easily, occasionally I miss the sweet spot and have to break out my saw.

Tom, Doing it the way you describe really isnt batoning, I have done this before on bones and pelvis' etc. I have no problems with that! But hitting the spine of the knife to drive it through something hard... well I just feel that the hollow grind on todays knives is too weak for such abuse, (they are for cutting) and I have seen too many pics posted here to say its not abuse (the knives of yester year had a semi hollow grind and were thicker in the main portion of the blade) And occassionally the saw does need to come out, but only if its along!

I still feel that Buck will replace said knife, I am just unsure if they see batoning as use or abuse????? Any time I leave a mark or dent on the spine of my knife I just don't think its being used for its intended purpose...
Whether or not most guys do it...


I can see where you compare a knife edge to a chisel jb but a chisel has alot thicker adge and I can buy a chisel for about $7.00. So I guess in this case a diamondback is O.K. to baton with, but a chisel won't break
My budget is too limited to take a $100.00+ knife (kalinga) and smash the spine of it!

 

[wh4f]

I have done the same batoning with a spyderco endura and had np on a white tail years ago and I used a tire iron!!! yes I have also heard many stories of damaged knive fron such use but I don`t think it is really abuse as that is the way many people have done it for years

Here's a thread from a little while back about batoning:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515188
I think most people see it as abuse, at least according to the poll anyway...

I need to up my membership so I can post a poll about batoning with fixed blades and what types of knives are O.K., to baton with. (I do believe there are some) INFI

In that link there is a knife made by Extrema Ratio. If you want to baton with that beast have at it! BUT it is not a diamondback...