just back after escorting car jack victims

S

sams

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Messages
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Well my wife's girlfriends just got car jacked and called me 2nd to the police. the one lady was uninjured, the other thrown out of the car. She was bruised pretty bad. They asked me to go to their apartment, the "bad guys" have her purse, address, keys, credit cards etc. I took.......M43, and 1911 with 4 spare magazines, and Sure Fire light. Mentally thinking how much room I won't have in the hall-ways, I decided if it happens, it will close and fast. no need for long blades.

Two hours, lock smith, packing and "out of there". Strange, I was almost wishing for a visit.

Time for a glass of wine and unwind. By the way, what would you fellows have taken? It might just happen!:rolleyes:
 
Sorry to hear about your adventure Sams, glad everyone's OK. To answer your question, if I was expecting company I'd have brought a short-barrelled pump shotgun.

The closest I ever came to "being there" when I was not expecting company I had a Sig .45ACP which I suppose is the next best thing.

After your ordeal I'm sure the wine will taste fine, whatever the label.
 
My listed guns on the permit are a lightweight Bodyguard snub and a CZ83 .380 with hi-cap mags. But in the situation you faced, a somewhat scuffed up old Military and Police M58* in .41 mag might have gone along in my right jacket pocket. Ditto on the M43. Interestingly, both have had their handles carved and shaped to fit my hands like gloves.

* 4" fixed sight N frame that looks like a pregnant model 10 .38 spl M&P K frame.
 
In the case you are telling about. I would opt for the 12 Ga. pump with #4 buck and my new 12" AK. It will shave so I know that it will do a number on some body. Just soomething comforting about that shotgun at night.:)
 
Thanks fellows for the kind words. Pappy and Raghorn, I agree about a shotgun. I have a Ithaca M37 like I used in the military,pakerized extended mag, sure fire light on the tube and side saddle shell holder.
The problem is the squad cars at the scene would take a dim view of a "long" gun. Walking through the apartment complex, talking to the lock smith and other tenants, a "long" gun would have put me in jail. I had a long sleeve shirt covering my weaponary. I had to blend in but be ready to go into action. All weapons concealed, and not weighted down so much not to be able to move.
Rusty, I like your selections too.

Well the sun is out this morning, the coffee is great, and a new day is promising.:)
 
You should have called the cops to go up to the apartment first.They will do this if you explain the situation. You could have gotten hurt or into a bad legal situation if they had been there.

Good that you did not get hurt.

A nice vest and a sub da 38 in a pocket goes a long way while your waiting for the locks to be fixed.

Problem is, the ladies who are unarmed and unprotected after you leave.

Nice to have friends like you.:)
 
Sams, I don't understand why you went and not the cops. I don't understand how you knew where the perps were.

Rusty, what is a "somewhat scuffed up old Military and Police M58 in .41 msg might have gone along in my right jacket pocket"
The 58 is the issue service .41 mag so I guess that is what it is.
Msg is in chinese food.

munk
 
Hi Munk, The cops are idiots. That is why there are so many criminals. We called the ladies cell phone and the Bad Guys answered!!! The cops gave us the run around as to why they won't follow the cell signal!!!!

The phone company very polite and courteous, and said they cannot trace the cell without a supeana from the police. Around and around we went. I said screw it and we'll get her things at the apt and change the locks that very night/morning. Of course the danger was if the Bad Guys followed her address [her purse was in the stolen car] and tried to enter with the keys they had in the purse! So we had to move quickly and the police said they didn't do "prevenitive work" just call 911 if they showed up while we were at the apartment. We had no idea if the BG would be there or not. Stupid cops could have followed the cell signal but they said no. Go figure!:grumpy:

Oh well, things did not esculate. The phone company cancelled the service and the women will try to get on with their lives. We all know it could have been alot worse.
 
kops kan bee realy stupid!!!! My sister's car was broken into and her belongings stolen. The thief left his/her finger prints all over the car door but the cops would not dust and identify who the prints belonged to!!! They said they were to busy to do that! They could have gotten a crook off the street!

I'm glad everyone was ok Sam! As to what I would use for protection, I would have my SIG 229 in .40 and one of my AK's!
 
From what this old man has seen the last few years. There are not many cops left that are worth a Dayum. If all departments are like Austin TX; this country has a real problem. Mostly storm troopers that like to shoot people and harass the law abiding citizens. Most I have talked to lately can't talk to people with politeness at all.

Where I live most of this neighborhood has to take care of their own problems. It usually takes one of the deputies at least 45 minutes to get out here and when they do they are worthless. One of the big ranches near me called for the law a few months back and two cops showed up and both of them together would not go in a barn to look for suspected theives. They hardly ever get called anymore.:mad:
 
In my experience in Chicago, and then in rural Wisconsin are...
hard-working, underpaid, subject to abuse and political pressure that defies description, live with 12 hours of boredom and 10 minutes of terror, have to follow not just the law, but the regs of their departments, the vagaries of the current political faction, and any community leader who needs headlines at the moment.

They become isolated from general society and end up with only other cops and law-enforcement professionals for friends...which reinforces their alienation from the society they are supposed to serve. IF they do make an arrest, the society then moves to plea-bargain, or time-serve the criminal out, or in some cases...let them go for lack of space to incarcerate them.

They are given symbols of authority: uniforms, badges, batons, and guns...and then told that they should not use them except in circumstances of deadly peril.

Most departments are understaffed, and spread very thin. Contrary to popular belief, they are not hired to protect the public, but to enforce the law...as they are able, given all the above limitations...including the "civil rights" of some person who just spit on them or was incredibly verbally abusive.

I'm just stating my opinion and experience, but I weary of cop or law enforcement officer bashing. It's a miserable job and we're lucky we have the caliber of law enforcement professionals we have. When they can, when they are allowed to...they do a helluva job, sometimes dying for complete strangers. No group, in its entirety, is perfect.


Kis
:rolleyes:
 
I agree with Kis. Cops are underpaid and underappreciated. I wouldn't be a cop for anything in the world but I am glad that they are there.

In East Point, Georgia where I live the cops are great! I have had to call them and the response time was never less than five minutes and this was not a serious emergency.

I had some vandals that had damaged my back yard (and gone) and I needed to make a police report. The cop that came was very helpful. He suggested that the law would not prosecute pre-teenagers for vandalism and that it would be a very serious mistake on my part to detain kids until the cops arrived.

He did suggest that I get my cell phone and follow them if they returned. That I could be on the phone givng directions and descriptions to the police who would take the kids home and give the parents a citation, maybe make the parents pay for any damage the kids caused.

They also have a "Weed and Seed" drug enforcement unit that is doing a great job of cleaning up the drug problems.

Lastly the East Point jail.

First there are no TVs, no radios, no cell phones (and that is a HUGE blow to most of the cons!) no books, no games, no magazines, no exercise equipment -- the only reading material may be a Bible if they can find one. Otherwise only an empty cell. Prisoners beg to go to the county jail where they have cable TV andother luxeries.

Second are the prisoner uniforms. Black and white stripes about six inches wide and flourescent orange watch caps. And they must wear them at all times! You should hear the people laughing at the work crews!

It is a very good idea to obey the law in East Point Georgia!

Oh yeah, we also have the "Red Dogs" for our SWAT county cops. It is well known that criminals who decide to run from them WILL spend some time in the hospital when caught!

I salute these men and women in blue and black! I even donated money for body armor.

Now if we could just get them all supplied with HI Khuks!!!!!
 
Bill ,and Kis, I understand fully the situation for the police. I have and had many family members in law enforcement. A well respected relative was at one time Chicago's police superintendent. Many were sargeants in the Chicago police and suburbs. I was a part timer at one time but quit because of the idiotic, childish, foolishness they do.

Fresh out of the military in '72 the neighborhood punks would do drugs and "girls" on my corner in front of my house. They harassed my wife while I was at work. The useless cops said they were too busy to patrol this area and to take matters in my own hands. The neighbors used to applaud the fights on the street. Two cars smashed in by me, many teeth knocked out by me, and I went into their house with a "stick" and cleaned up.

Later the older drug dealers approached me and asked for a truce. We agreed to keep it off my corner away from my kids and I will ignore what is down the street. The cops still didn't get involved, too scared!!!!!

I have 10 or 12 similar stories. A close relative turned into a big a.. h..e after making sargeant. He would argue with his father and use the f word to his mother. Last month I had to teach him some hand/joint wrist techniques. His father had a smile on his face when I kicked him in the groin after I threw him down. We both hand concealed handguns and I advised him not to esculate the situation. He didn't. No, my experiences with the law officers are dismal at best.

They do a good job giving out speeding tickets though.:D
 
Extracted from yesterday's "Washington Post". The writer, a Post Reporter witnessed a drive-by shooting. The shooters opened fire on him when the reporter tried to block their escape route with his car.

"Officer Lozado had warned me that ADW [Assault with a Deadly Weapon - Spence] cases in the District routinely do not get assigned to an investigator for one to two weeks. "I'll be honest with you; the paperwork is probably in somebody's desk," he told me in a separate call early Tuesday.

Pollack, confirming that the case still had not been assigned, said it was partly hampered by my shortcomings as a witness. I hadn't seen the shooter, she explained, so I couldn't pick him out of a lineup, and I didn't know the name of the side street where the original shooting occurred (which shouldn't have mattered, I thought, since they knew where it was -- they'd even found the shell casings). And although I had described the car as red and had read its license plate number to the 911 dispatcher, I had failed to get the make, model or year of the car. I didn't even know how many people were in it.

With only the tag number, she said, "We don't have probable cause" to arrest the owner. The tags could have been stolen; maybe someone else was driving the car that night. "The U.S. attorney won't issue a warrant for the arrest of the owner just based on a tag ID," she said. "We need an individual and someone to identify them, and you didn't see him."

She raised other problems. "Even if we find out the owner of the car," she said, "we're going to have to go up there and talk to him and get him to tell us who was driving the car that night, and then find them." If the assailant was Hispanic, she said, that would further hamper the case because the 4th District has only two Spanish-speaking detectives.

In the end, she summed up, an arrest would be difficult.On Tuesday, a man was shot and killed at Roosevelt High School in Northwest Washington. Police suspect the same Salvadoran gang, the Vatos Locos, that Lozado had told me might be responsible for my Sunday night shootings. Lozado said he would expedite the analysis of my shell casings -- but as of Friday morning, no detective had yet been assigned to my case.

Meanwhile, the deductible for repairs to my bullet-riddled car, plus the cost of a rental until repairs are made, will exceed $500. Images of the event intrude on my consciousness at every turn, day and night. I haven't been sleeping well.

"Seems like victims are always the ones who lose in the end because of what you have to go through," Pollack said in one conversation. When there is an arrest in such cases, she said, a witness can look forward to lost time and wages during long months of depositions and court proceedings, and the possibility that the charges would eventually be dropped. She didn't mention the pervasive fear of retribution felt by many potential witnesses.

And she didn't mention the saddest thing: the loss of the euphoric sense of closure, of safety, that I was feeling on that crisp October night on 16th Street, when all I had on my mind was a peaceful road ahead.

Brian Barger is an editor at The Post.


© 2002 The Washington Post Company
 
Seems that there are still some good police officers, but the many pressures could and do warp a lot of people. And I don't doubt that they're stretched pretty thin.

BUT....



Contrary to popular belief, they are not hired to protect the public, but to enforce the law.
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police said they didn't do "prevenitive work" just call 911 if they showed up while we were at the apartment
Click to expand...

If the above quotes are indicative of actual policy, instead of poor execution of policy....

They sure as sh*t ought to take those mottos like
"serve and protect" off the d*mn cars!!!!

"impose unthinking compliance with the rules" might be a better choice.
 
sams
I'm a little late getting in to this discussion but here is my 2 cents worth.

The 1911 was the RIGHT choice given the circustances. Hardball OK, but Federal jacketed HP preferred. The 12 gauge would have been better but not appropriate as you have said.
The police are underpaid and overworked. You can't count on them. As they say, "Dial 911, wait 30 minutes and die." I am very glad no one was severely hurt by these thugs. The outcome could have been much worse.

Semp --
 
My problem with Semper Fi is this: though he and I are often close philosophically, and again apart, there is no finer person I would want as my neighbor. I feel the barricades society has errected to keep all the Semper fi's from acting only hurt all of us in the long run. So what would I do with Semper Fi, if he were my neighbor? Nothing. Let him know he's welcome and that I am unavaible for comment over any incident that may occur in the neighborhood. That is, I saw nothing, regarding the press and police, and saw enough, regarding my own M1A should he ever need backup.

munk
 
I wouldn't be a cop for anything in the world but I am glad that they are there.
Click to expand...

The older I get the more the police seem like petty tax collectors and publicity props. They accept zero responsibility, or accountability for public safety, and probably do more to promote crime then to hinder it. If we were to fire them all tomorrow, crime would end within a week. As long as they are there, they give us all an excuse not to get involved. Remove them and the community will come together to make the criminal lifestyle very dangerous.

There is something fundamentally wrong with hiring people who are neither empowered, nor willing, to accept responsibility. We should at least ask them to pick up the trash so we can be assured of getting something for our tax dollars. They probably are understaff or under paid. However, given the amount of money we currently spend on law enforcement, that should be taken as an indication that we need to find a better tool rather than a bigger hammer.

n2s
 
Originally posted by munk
My problem with Semper Fi is this: though he and I are often close philosophically, and again apart, there is no finer person I would want as my neighbor. I feel the barricades society has errected to keep all the Semper fi's from acting only hurt all of us in the long run. So what would I do with Semper Fi, if he were my neighbor? Nothing. Let him know he's welcome and that I am unavaible for comment over any incident that may occur in the neighborhood. That is, I saw nothing, regarding the press and police, and saw enough, regarding my own M1A should he ever need backup.

munk
Click to expand...

munk
I think we would make good neighbors. I have always believed that it is my responsibility to handle my own problems. I have to act and not rely on others to solve problems for me.

The police want arrests. Prosecutors want convictions. Justice has little to do with it. For sure, 99% of the people in jail deserve to be there. If not for the crime they are incarcerated for, then some other crime they got away with. This is the way the police think.

Yes, I think we could be good neighbors. I would enjoy meeting your driveway neighbor too. Perhaps he would listen to reason. There are ways to reason with that type of person.

Semp --
 
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