just back after escorting car jack victims

Hmmm...

You guys touched on a sore spot I have with Canadian cops too. All too often I see a story where they waited outside until the shooting stopped, and then came in and mopped up after the gunman shot himself.

I believe that becoming a Police Officer means putting yourself in harm's way for the preservation of the people you serve. It is much like being a soldier. Unfortunately most Police Services are spread way too thin to provide much protection.
 
1911 WAS PERFECT !!,EASY TO hide until u need it.:D ;)The hell with everyone,family first.(WITHIN THE LAW! THAT IS.);)
 
Sams,

I live a world away but I'm glad there are still people like you around.

Many times, ordinary folks dont want to get involved. Not that I blame them - especially here in a country where for the most part, only the cops and crooks have guns. This is not even considering the possibility of lawsuits from the scumbag's next of kin whose ass you just capped in self-defence. Damned if you do, damned if you dont... :mad:

Andrew Lim
 
Respectfully,

I couldn't disagree with you more.

The rank and file cop is jerked around like a yoyo held by a spastic person: the political heirarchy in the departments, the various States' Attorneys, the elected or appointed legislatures, and the court systems which, at times, view the arresting officer as if he were the criminal.

You'll see the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF POLICE CHIEFS endorse candidates simply on the basis of their own self-interest and projected future plans, rather than for the good of their departments and the societies they have sworn to support.

It was the cops who ran into the World Trade Center with the fireman, not the politicians.

My experience must be vastly different than yours has been.

Again, respectfully,

Kis
:rolleyes:
 
Some weekends get a bit wild in my neighborhood. When some of the punks are roaring up and down the road in front of the house. I make sure that they can see me in my yard with at least a 15" knife on one hip and the big S&W.44 Mag on the other.

They all remember when I was a deputy around here.
They also know that I will not shoot for no reason but if that .44 has to bark: something or somebody is going to get hit pretty hard. I just hope nobody pushes me that far, ever. But, I believe in standing up for my rights too.

I don't have a scanner but, I want to put something on this forum that all peace officers are supposed to and should follow. I will put it on tomorrow night. I have to look it up and my wife is asleep now.:)
 
When I was growing up and even 20 years ago, the old timers still thought of themselves as Peace Officers ( Officers of the Peace ). And that is what they did. They kept the peace.

Today, the ones on the street think of themselves as LEO's ( Law Enforcement Officers ). And that's what they do.

The difference makes me sick.
 
Law Enforcement Cod of Ethics

As a Laqw Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional rights of all men to liberty, equality and justice

I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all; maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn, or ridicule; develope self restraint;and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Honest in thought and deed in both my personal and official life. I will be axemplary in obeying the laws of the land and the regulations of my department. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to mein my offaicial capacity will be kept ever secret unless revelation is necessary in the preformance of my duty.

I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings, prejudices, animosities or friendships to influence my decisions. With no compromise for crime and with relentless prosecution of criminals, I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear or favor, malice or ill will, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities.

I recognize the badge of my office as a synbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the polilce service. I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession. . . Law Enforcement.

I guess they are not hired to protect the citizens or any thing else. Could be why so many crooks are equiped with a badge and gun.
 
First off, Sams, Way to GO! You did the right thing. If things had gotten sticky in the Apartment, You had the right to be there at the request of the leasee.

Anyway, for me, I'd go equipped as follows:

Smith 637 Airweight .38 in a Galco ankle glove holster;
SIG 230 .380 in Left hand Pants pocket
Colt Combat Commander .45 ( 230 GR Hydrashocks) in Dillon LTD holster (Right Hip) --4 spares in the small of back
Glock 27 Subcompact .40 cross draw

12 Gauge Mossberg 590 with "0" Buck and Colt AR-15 carbine with CQB sling ( Both Kept in the vehicle to fall back to.)

I have always said that the police were a reactive force at best. Most folks know that action beats reaction. Cops will never be there when the sewage hits the impeller. I never was when I was a cop. All I did was mop up the mess and write til my hand cramped.

One thing I did hear about the makeup of the police force was as follows:

45% of cops became cops because they were picked on in school
45% of cops became cops because they picked on people in school
10% of cops became cops because they liked the work and wanted to help.

So, in effect, You have a 90% chance of interacting with a cop who is, shall we say, less than helpful. I found these stats to be about right in my experience.

Having always been a strapping lad, I wasn't bullied. Having an even more strapping father kept me from bullying. I was amongst the 10%.

I cherish the experiences, but I don't miss the Politics or the Pi$$ poor paycheck.

-Craig, former keeper of the peace
 
I don't believe the picked-on stats, or the bullied ones. I think society has deteriorated. That shows in law as well as courtesy in the streets.

Pappy, the law enforcement people I know in Montana best fit your description. That means it can still happen.


munk

ps; the 'law enforcement officer of the year' previously was someone I could pick up and throw- if I wanted the repercussions. It has never been just about size. I am of less than average build.
I think this means there are other ways to achieve harmoney than being 'strapping'. I suspect people who enjoy that status have more on the ball than just that.
 
Between my tours with the Corps I've worked Calif. and TX as a deputy. In Calif. in the 60's you didn't have very much equipment and not a lot of training either. Ran into a lot of fine men out there and some A--holes too. The last part of my law days here in TX, I found a lot more undesireables. I suppose with time every thing will just go to pieces a bit at a time. I do understand why some of the officers get discouraged the way the courts pat the back of outlaws hand and let them go & fooishly reduced sentences. That is one reason I quit when I did.
 
Originally posted by Pappy
I do understand why some of the officers get discouraged the way the courts pat the back of outlaws hand and let them go & fooishly reduced sentences. That is one reason I quit when I did.
Click to expand...


You hit the nail on the head, Pappy. This had alot to do with why I hung it up. I made a drug bust which yielded 8 oz. of crack cocaine, 8 oz. of groomed Pot, a stolen car and 6 drug traffiking arrests. Result ( due to spineless prosection: ) 1 person served 1 year before trial and was sentenced to 1 year and was given credit for time served. That was encouraging.

-Criag
 
Originally posted by Cuttin' Craig

......So, in effect, You have a 90% chance of interacting with a cop who is, shall we say, less than helpful. I found these stats to be about right in my experience.
-Craig, former keeper of the peace
Click to expand...

Craig

My experience is the same. Many years ago I learned a hard lesson...Don't talk to the cops about anything. Keep your mouth shut and handle the problem yourself.

Semp --
 
When I was a punk kid, I was beaten and choked unconscious by a few of the 'finest'. I've also met some very fine men. I'm still suspicious.

The first time I got a break from a cop I was stunned. The local constables are very fine, however. I think there's enough room in Montana to allow you to act human.

munk
 
I lived in Quebec, Canada a few years ago. I don't know if it is still the case, but at the time a lot of the criminals would end up dead of gunshot wounds. Police would arrive, shrug their shoulders, and say, "This is obviously an underworld settling of accounts." No further investigation necessary.

There was a case of a businessman who was being extorted, so he went to a friend who was a police sergeant and described his problem. the sergeant advised, "There is not much we can do. But if you want to handle it yourself, I can assure you that on our list of the top 100 suspects, you will be number 258."

One case I witnessed from about 50 feet away: robbers had been holding up a film store, always on a Saturday night. This was at the main intersection in Montreal, with about 1,000 people present. Police staked it out, one in the back room and one on the street. Robbers came in, the officer in the back drew down and said "Bouge pas" (don't move). Thief turned to look at him -- BOOM. The other thief ran out the door -- BOOM. Two dead robbers.

I was there during the police strike. City wouldn't provide a decent paycheck so the police stayed home. There was no law enforcement whatsoever. Running gun battles in the street, looting... After 12 hours the police came back, and the politicians found a way to give them their pay raise.
 
Originally posted by Kismet
would be discourteous.

Kis
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

So would mine..... no, I suggest, respectfully, that those people who would like to change the current status of law enforcement jump right in and do so. Join or rejoin the police. Campaign politically for reforms that will improve the system. There is no question but that we need law enforcement of some kind and that it could serve its intended purpose better.

While I actually DO approve of vigilante actions, I know that the only way to change the "system" in an overall sense is from within.

I was a staff photographer in college during the Viet Nam crisis in the late 1960s. Often I was asked to photograph high profile "war protestors."

Let me state that I sure as hell did not want to be in Viet Nam and did not really even understand why the "US of A" decided to be there anyway. BUT I appreciate the vets who went and those who did not return. AND I try to believe in supporting our country.

So here I am photographing these "hippies" with their feathers and bells who are planning a "sit in" at one of Atlanta's restaurants. They were planning, as an act of protest, to piss on the tables and floors of this restaurant. They were planning to have their asses kicked and thrown in jail. They felt justified in exercisng their first amendment right of free speech.

They felt that this was an act that would lend support of their beliefs that the war in Viet Nam was unjust. One of the leaders suggested that I join them at the sit in. I refused. He wanted to know why.

I had two reasons, first and most importantly I felt that their methods were bound to be ineffectual and would probably entrench the "establishment" in their position to support the war, that there were many politicians did not like the war either, but that these politicians would not want their anti-war cause associated with the hippies bullshit.

I also know that a direct attack on the "establishment" is futile because they control the police and if the police are not enough, the national guard and if that was not enough, the army, marines and air force!

So since this "sit in" would probably not have the desired effect, it was probably more for their own egos. They could brag about how they were abused for their beliefs and sit around and talk about how they helped end the war in Viet Nam. Which was bullshit. The war ended for other reasons.

So what would you do Bill, to end the war? They asked me. My response was that I would get a three piece brown suit, get politically active, stay in school, look enough like the establishment to find the key people who COULD make the right decisions. Surely not as glamorous, not as likely to get me laid by hippie chicks, but most likely to accomplish my avowed aims.

They called me a "brown shoe" and went off to piss in the restaurant.

I will close it here, I need to get dressed. I have a meeting later with the mayor.

Best Regards
Bill
 
Interesting stuff. There is the good and bad in all walks of life. My brother's best and life long friend is a retired Kansas Highway Patrolman and one of the finest men you'll ever meet. One of my mentor's in life was the town marshall of Cherokee, Kansas -- another one of the finest. I have a couple of uncles and cousins who are/were retired Chicago cops -- not bad buys and blood kin. And I've seen some bad ones, too.
 
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